Posted by mm on July 8, 2006, 3:19 pm
I read somewhere in the last week that one should disconnect the
headlight before running a particular bike with a bad battery. Or the
headlight would be burned out. This was a Honda, and maybe it applies
to my new-to-me Honda CB? 450.
Is it only the headlight, or should I disconnect all the lights until
I get a good battery.
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Posted by Jack Hunt on July 9, 2006, 3:31 pm
>Is it only the headlight, or should I disconnect all the lights until
>I get a good battery.
You should get a good battery before you ride the bike.
The headlight is on so people have less chance to "not see you". To ride any
distance without it is just asking to be creamed by a BDC.
--
Jack
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Posted by Jack Hunt on July 10, 2006, 9:39 am
>I don't know why this would be true. I would think it isn't. And I
>wouldn't think the headlight is more vulnerable than other lights, or
>that Hondas are different from other makes. But the guy's webpage is
>pretty good and he doesn't seem crazy.
Bullshit alert. You need to delete that link now. Whoever wrote that is *so*
full of shit.
You can't get it running without a battery. You're not going to hurt the
headlight running it with a low battery. The stuff he writes about running the
engine with a mixture of kerosene and oil is just scary.
He even contradicts himself. "Disconnect the headlight so you don't hurt it
with a low battery, but install a new battery before you start it." He sounds
like one of those morons who pull the battery cable off with the engine running
to "test the charging system". Now that will blow a bulb. Running with a low
battery won't.
--
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Posted by mike on July 18, 2006, 2:53 am
Say What?? alert.
Let's get the apples in one box and the oranges in another box. Don't
mix 'em.
Looking at the extremes and assuming some monotonic interpolation
between 'em...
A battery can be either good or bad.
A good battery can be either charged or discharged.
If your battery is good but just discharged, it will hold the voltage
down when the generator tries to stuff current into it. Life is good.
The problem is with a BAD battery. The primary failure mode is
sulphation. That causes the internal resistance of the battery go to
up. When the generator tries to stuff current into it, it can't hold
the voltage down.
Now let's look at the charging system.
Older bikes had no regulation. They used the battery to absorb all the
excess current from the generator. But the battery was tiny and
wouldn't last long at that. The whole system depended on a delicate
balance between the generator output and the lighting load. My old 1972
Yamaha used the leakage inductance of the magneto to give first order
compensation as the engine speed increased.
My '75 Honda CB125S uses the tiny battery as a "regulator". The battery
lasts about half a season before it's resistance goes up...the headlight
burns out...then the other lights burn out very quickly. At
$35/headlight, that gets old rather quickly. Headlights aren't
particularly more vulnerable...they just cost more. I put a shunt
regulator to absorb the excess current and limit the voltage. Haven't
burned out a headlight since. Batteries last forever.
Newer bikes have real alternators and regulators just like a car. But I
still wouldn't run one with a bad battery...not to be confused with a
discharged good battery. They also changed the way the ignition worked.
Old bikes sparked off the magneto. Newer use CD-style ignition that
requires some serious peak battery current.
Biggest question is where your bike lies during that changeover period.
Be safe and put in a good battery. I won't recommend the way I do it
cause I don't want your heirs to sue me.
mike
Jack Hunt wrote:
>
>
>>I don't know why this would be true. I would think it isn't. And I
>>wouldn't think the headlight is more vulnerable than other lights, or
>>that Hondas are different from other makes. But the guy's webpage is
>>pretty good and he doesn't seem crazy.
>
>
> Bullshit alert. You need to delete that link now. Whoever wrote that is *so*
> full of shit.
>
> You can't get it running without a battery. You're not going to hurt the
> headlight running it with a low battery. The stuff he writes about running the
> engine with a mixture of kerosene and oil is just scary.
>
> He even contradicts himself. "Disconnect the headlight so you don't hurt it
> with a low battery, but install a new battery before you start it." He sounds
> like one of those morons who pull the battery cable off with the engine running
> to "test the charging system". Now that will blow a bulb. Running with a low
> battery won't.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Jack
>
> Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
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Posted by mm on July 18, 2006, 6:05 pm
>Say What?? alert.
>Let's get the apples in one box and the oranges in another box. Don't
>mix 'em.
>Looking at the extremes and assuming some monotonic interpolation
>between 'em...
>A battery can be either good or bad.
>A good battery can be either charged or discharged.
>If your battery is good but just discharged, it will hold the voltage
>down when the generator tries to stuff current into it. Life is good.
>The problem is with a BAD battery.
I don't know for sure, but I'm going to assume that after 31 years
without riding, the battery is BAD. :)
>The primary failure mode is
>sulphation. That causes the internal resistance of the battery go to
>up. When the generator tries to stuff current into it, it can't hold
>the voltage down.
>Now let's look at the charging system.
>Older bikes had no regulation. They used the battery to absorb all the
>excess current from the generator. But the battery was tiny and
>wouldn't last long at that. The whole system depended on a delicate
>balance between the generator output and the lighting load. My old 1972
>Yamaha used the leakage inductance of the magneto to give first order
>compensation as the engine speed increased.
>My '75 Honda CB125S uses the tiny battery as a "regulator". The battery
>lasts about half a season before it's resistance goes up...the headlight
>burns out...then the other lights burn out very quickly. At
>$35/headlight, that gets old rather quickly. Headlights aren't
>particularly more vulnerable...they just cost more.
That's exactly what I needed to know. I'll get the battery first
thing.
> I put a shunt
>regulator to absorb the excess current and limit the voltage. Haven't
>burned out a headlight since.
I would like to do that if you give me more details.
> Batteries last forever.
>Newer bikes have real alternators and regulators just like a car. But I
>still wouldn't run one with a bad battery...not to be confused with a
>discharged good battery. They also changed the way the ignition worked.
>Old bikes sparked off the magneto. Newer use CD-style ignition that
>requires some serious peak battery current.
>Biggest question is where your bike lies during that changeover period.
>Be safe and put in a good battery. I won't recommend the way I do it
>cause I don't want your heirs to sue me.
I don't have any heirs, and I'm a newbie to bikes but with a lot of
experience on cars. Are you talking about using an old car's voltage
regulator, or some transistorized thing? That I buy or make?
>mike
>Jack Hunt wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I don't know why this would be true. I would think it isn't. And I
>>>wouldn't think the headlight is more vulnerable than other lights, or
>>>that Hondas are different from other makes. But the guy's webpage is
>>>pretty good and he doesn't seem crazy.
>>
>>
>> Bullshit alert. You need to delete that link now. Whoever wrote that is *so*
>> full of shit.
>>
>> You can't get it running without a battery. You're not going to hurt the
>> headlight running it with a low battery. The stuff he writes about running
the
>> engine with a mixture of kerosene and oil is just scary.
>>
>> He even contradicts himself. "Disconnect the headlight so you don't hurt it
>> with a low battery, but install a new battery before you start it." He
sounds
>> like one of those morons who pull the battery cable off with the engine
running
>> to "test the charging system". Now that will blow a bulb. Running with a low
>> battery won't.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jack
>>
>> Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>> ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
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>I get a good battery.