Posted by mm on August 13, 2006, 3:15 am
I've been busy with work and lots of other things, plus it was
infernally hot until a weak ago.
So, I bought a battery today, even though I could have run it off of a
jumper battery. I'm convinced I'm going to get this running, so
waiting to buy the battery isn't worth it.
Cleaned the bike up and added some oil, and opened up where the tool
kit is and all the special tools were there, and some little things,
and I feel like I'm making progress.
Bike Guy Joe wrote:
> Yeah, the tank is only about 3 inches deep in the middle, it's where
>the backbone of the frame runs through.
Got the gas tank out today
> Here's how to clean the tank, and it will only be 5-6 dollars! Just
>buy either a couple short legnths of dog chain, or a couple 1 lb. bags
>of aquarium rock and pour or drop either in with a half gallon of
>kerosene.
I bought a gallon of kerosene, and was surprised that it was 7
dollars! I don't suppose I can just use fresh gasoline, at 3 dollars
a gallon. Is the problem disposing of it, or that it will explode, or
that it's bad for the hands or the lungs, or what? If you tell me to
use kerosene, of course I will, but I'm still curious why kerosene is
better than gasoline.
>Shake the tank for a half hour. Yeah, your arms will get
>tired, but do it. Then dump the resulting mess out and rinse with more
>kero until it comes out clean. Works like magic......I'd still run an
>inline filter afterwards.
?? I'm not sure what you mean, or I think I can't do it. There is
very little room to insert a filter in a line. It goes straight via a
threaded pipe from the tank to the off/main tank/reserve tank valve
and from there, it's only 1 1/2 inches to one carb, and 3 or 4 inches
to the other carb.
> You won't need the fancy tank coating to keep it from rusting, just
>keep it full of gas!
Sounds great.
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Posted by Bike Guy Joe on August 13, 2006, 9:08 am
mm wrote:
> Bike Guy Joe wrote:
> > Yeah, the tank is only about 3 inches deep in the middle, it's where
> I bought a gallon of kerosene, and was surprised that it was 7
> dollars! I don't suppose I can just use fresh gasoline, at 3 dollars
> a gallon. Is the problem disposing of it, or that it will explode, or
> that it's bad for the hands or the lungs, or what? If you tell me to
> use kerosene, of course I will, but I'm still curious why kerosene is
> better than gasoline.
Gasoline is a little too volitile and yes, it's bad for your lungs
ect. Kerosine is 7 dollars?!? Here it's 2.69 a gallon. BTW, after you
are done with it, you can filter the Kerosine and give it to someone
with a diesel truck, or dump it on an unwanted brushpile and light it.
Gasoline will have a tendency to explode if you do that....
> >Shake the tank for a half hour. Yeah, your arms will get
> >tired, but do it. Then dump the resulting mess out and rinse with more
> >kero until it comes out clean. Works like magic......I'd still run an
> >inline filter afterwards.
> ?? I'm not sure what you mean, or I think I can't do it. There is
> very little room to insert a filter in a line. It goes straight via a
> threaded pipe from the tank to the off/main tank/reserve tank valve
> and from there, it's only 1 1/2 inches to one carb, and 3 or 4 inches
> to the other carb.
O.K. then, just clean that little screen in the bowl in the bottom of
the fuel petcock a few times after you get it running until it's not
full of crud anymore.
Posted by mm on August 13, 2006, 7:11 pm
wrote:
>mm wrote:
>> Bike Guy Joe wrote:
>>
>> > Yeah, the tank is only about 3 inches deep in the middle, it's where
>> I bought a gallon of kerosene, and was surprised that it was 7
>> dollars! I don't suppose I can just use fresh gasoline, at 3 dollars
>> a gallon. Is the problem disposing of it, or that it will explode, or
>> that it's bad for the hands or the lungs, or what? If you tell me to
>> use kerosene, of course I will, but I'm still curious why kerosene is
>> better than gasoline.
> Gasoline is a little too volitile and yes, it's bad for your lungs
>ect. Kerosine is 7 dollars?!? Here it's 2.69 a gallon. BTW, after you
>are done with it, you can filter the Kerosine and give it to someone
>with a diesel truck, or dump it on an unwanted brushpile and light it.
>Gasoline will have a tendency to explode if you do that....
I'm going to spend 100's of dollars on this, so I'm not sure why 4
extra dollars bothers me, but I guess it's because it just seems like
it should be cheaper than gasoline. And I'll bet it is if I go
somewhere else. When I put "kerosene" into yp.yahoo.com it came back
with heating companies, not hardware stores, so I'll go to one near me
and bring a clean gasoline container. I hope they will put let me put
it in that, because I don't have room in the basement for a kerosene
container.
I can return the pre-packaged gallon. I got it at a very nice neat
Ace Hardware store.
>>
>> >Shake the tank for a half hour. Yeah, your arms will get
>> >tired, but do it. Then dump the resulting mess out and rinse with more
>> >kero until it comes out clean. Works like magic......I'd still run an
>> >inline filter afterwards.
>>
>> ?? I'm not sure what you mean, or I think I can't do it. There is
>> very little room to insert a filter in a line. It goes straight via a
>> threaded pipe from the tank to the off/main tank/reserve tank valve
>> and from there, it's only 1 1/2 inches to one carb, and 3 or 4 inches
>> to the other carb.
> O.K. then, just clean that little screen in the bowl in the bottom of
>the fuel petcock a few times after you get it running until it's not
>full of crud anymore.
OK, I'll do a good job on that. (Didn't know there was a screen, but
it makes sense. :) )
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Posted by Nate Bargmann on August 13, 2006, 9:29 am
On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 03:15:51 -0400, mm wrote:
> I bought a gallon of kerosene, and was surprised that it was 7
> dollars! I don't suppose I can just use fresh gasoline, at 3 dollars
> a gallon. Is the problem disposing of it, or that it will explode, or
> that it's bad for the hands or the lungs, or what If you tell me to
> use kerosene, of course I will, but I'm still curious why kerosene is
> better than gasoline.
Gasoline has a much lower flash point and it's more volatile making it much
more dangerous to use as a solvent than kerosene or cleaning solvents.
>> You won't need the fancy tank coating to keep it from rusting, just
>>keep it full of gas!
>
> Sounds great.
I am of the opinion that no matter what you do, the rust *will* return.
You cannot keep the tank 100% full at all times. Even if you put the bike
on its centerstand and fill the tank tight full, at some point when it is
hotter than when you filled the tank, the expansion of the gas will force
some out. Later, when the temperature drops, the gas will contract and
now you have an air space in the tank. And that air space will eventually
cause condensation to form on the inside of the tank and that is when your
rust problem *will* start all over again (even faster the second time).
Gasoline expands and contracts a great deal with temperature changes, so a
parked bike will have a continual exchange of air out and back into the
tank. Bikes, being mostly pleasure vehicles in North America, sit more
than cars and with the small orifices in their carburetors are more prone
to experience problems from even the smallest particles of rust that
*will* pass through a fuel filter.
Two years ago I treated the tank of my KZ650SR with POR-15. It was
particularly nasty with the top side of the tank deeply pitted and
flaking. The poor bike had set at least a decade with old fuel in the
tank, every day forcing air out, drawing air back in and the condesation
doing its dirty deeds on the metal. The PO had bought the bike and spent
several months trying to clean the carbs. He had cleaned the tank, put on
an inline filter, and yet was unable to keep the carbs clean for any
length of time. I brought the bike home and spent a few months going
through it. Some of which was spent treating the tank and cleaning the
carbs. For the last time, I might add.
I am happy to report that after two years, I have had no problems related
to dirty fuel. I believe the system will be trouble free for years to
come. In fact, I just ordered another POR-15 tank sealer kit the other
day for a second 650 project I am working on. This tank isn't as bad as
the first, but once I'm done working on a bike, I prefer to just ride it.
Best $40 spent on restoring an old bike, IMHO.
Your money, your bike, your time. Do as you like. I just think that it's
worthwhile to do it right the first time than to do it over again many
times.
- Nate >>
--
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds,
the pessimist fears this is true."
Posted by mm on August 13, 2006, 7:17 pm
On Sun, 13 Aug 2006 08:29:11 -0500, "Nate Bargmann"
>Two years ago I treated the tank of my KZ650SR with POR-15. It was
>particularly nasty with the top side of the tank deeply pitted and
>flaking. The poor bike had set at least a decade with old fuel in the
>tank, every day forcing air out, drawing air back in and the condesation
>doing its dirty deeds on the metal. The PO had bought the bike and spent
>several months trying to clean the carbs. He had cleaned the tank, put on
>an inline filter, and yet was unable to keep the carbs clean for any
>length of time. I brought the bike home and spent a few months going
>through it. Some of which was spent treating the tank and cleaning the
>carbs. For the last time, I might add.
I'm taking what you say seriously, and I think what I'll do is just
clean it the easy way first and run it for a while, and when I have
more time, maybe do a better job like you say.
I still have a lot to do.
It has dual carbs and the lever controls one choke plate which has a
connection to the other. The metal hole in the connection seems like
it is a little too big and one choke is not closing or opening, the
same amount as the other. Do you think that matters for starting?
(I'm pretty sure both open or will open all the way when I'm done.)
>I am happy to report that after two years, I have had no problems related
>to dirty fuel. I believe the system will be trouble free for years to
>come. In fact, I just ordered another POR-15 tank sealer kit the other
>day for a second 650 project I am working on. This tank isn't as bad as
>the first, but once I'm done working on a bike, I prefer to just ride it.
>Best $40 spent on restoring an old bike, IMHO.
>Your money, your bike, your time. Do as you like. I just think that it's
>worthwhile to do it right the first time than to do it over again many
>times.
>- Nate >>
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>the backbone of the frame runs through.