Posted by John Albert on April 16, 2008, 1:04 pm
Have something you like on me while I ask for your advice...
I've got a 2000 Road Glide, with 99,999 on the odometer (pic
may appear at the binary group next door).
The cam and cam bearing (which was problematic with bikes
built in late 1999, like mine) was changed out early in the
bike's life, before I had any trouble with them, and has
never been a problem.
The outboard cam tensioner broke at 60,000 while on an
overnight trip to Vermont a few years' back. I was lucky
enough to get to Wilkins HD in Barre, and they took it in
and fixed it up on the spot. At the time, the tech who did
the work said that the _inboard_ tensioner looked ok, and
since changing that would have involved significantly more
work (and time), I let it go.
But lately I'm getting a little more noise out of the cam
area of the bike with the engine under power, and I reckon
it's time to get that inboard tensioner (actually, both of
them) changed out. It's not making a racket, but something
is whisperin' that the tensioners are nearing the end of
their life.
I recall the Wilkin's tech guy saying that to remove the cam
bearing plate and get access to the inboard tensioner, the
head covers have to come off (pushrods, I assume). So this
leads me to think that there might be TWO ways to have the
tensioners swapped out:
First [standard?] way: pull the head covers, do the work
"down below", reinstall head covers with solid pushrods.
But could there be a "second way", that is, cut the existing
pushrods, do the work, then replace with _adjustable_
pushrods? Could the rods then be adjusted into shape withOUT
having to remove the heads? I'm thinking "saved time and
saved expense". Not sure if the HD service techs think the
same way...
Seems that I recall reading here that around '07 HD did a
re-design on the cam plate, with the goal of eliminating the
cam spring tensioner problems. I remember when the re-design
was offically announced, HD said there would be a
retrofit/upgrade kit for older TC88's, but I don't think
they've ever made that kit available, for reasons unknown.
I understand that some aftermarket parts are available to do
this (Andrews?). Has anyone actually done a cam tensioner
upgrade on a 99-06 Twin Cam, replacing the old design with
the current one?
A final question: would it make sense to get the
tappets/lifters swapped out, while they're "in there"?
Thanks, and you better have another round!
- John
Posted by TL Mitchell on April 16, 2008, 4:23 pm
> I've got a 2000 Road Glide, with 99,999 on the odometer (pic may appear at
> the binary group next door).
Oh geez, guess you're not here to ask trailering questions.
<snippage>
Living dangerously with 99k on the inner tensioner IMO.
> But could there be a "second way", that is, cut the existing pushrods, do
> the work, then replace with _adjustable_ pushrods? Could the rods then be
> adjusted into shape withOUT having to remove the heads? I'm thinking
> "saved time and saved expense". Not sure if the HD service techs think the
> same way...
Went that route when my tensioners on a Y2K dresser went TU on the road,
also in VT. Dealer was swamped and agreed to get me turned around if I'd
accept the quickest easiest fix.... which wasn't necessarily the cheapest.
The adjustables were probably a wash, the additional labor woulda probably
come close to them. Having adjustables for future ease of service isn't a
bad idea anyway.
> Seems that I recall reading here that around '07 HD did a re-design on the
> cam plate, with the goal of eliminating the cam spring tensioner problems.
> I remember when the re-design was offically announced, HD said there would
> be a retrofit/upgrade kit for older TC88's, but I don't think they've ever
> made that kit available, for reasons unknown.
I've heard of folks upgrading to the new tensioner setup. H-D may not have a
"kit" but you oughta be able to get the parts ala carte.
> I understand that some aftermarket parts are available to do this
> (Andrews?). Has anyone actually done a cam tensioner upgrade on a 99-06
> Twin Cam, replacing the old design with the current one?
There's some threads on the HDForum, probably also on Harley Tech Talk and
VTwin forum. Some good places for more in depth research.
> A final question: would it make sense to get the tappets/lifters swapped
> out, while they're "in there"?
Absolutely, positively. "While yer in there", might want to take a look at
the cams with a jaundiced eye as well. Perfect time to upgrade the cams and
perhaps consider gear drive as well.
> Thanks, and you better have another round!
If you insist.........
112
Posted by Jinks on April 16, 2008, 5:04 pm
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 16:23:39 -0400, "TL Mitchell"
>> I've got a 2000 Road Glide, with 99,999 on the odometer (pic may appear at
>> the binary group next door).
>Oh geez, guess you're not here to ask trailering questions.
><snippage>
>Living dangerously with 99k on the inner tensioner IMO.
>> But could there be a "second way", that is, cut the existing pushrods, do
>> the work, then replace with _adjustable_ pushrods? Could the rods then be
>> adjusted into shape withOUT having to remove the heads? I'm thinking
>> "saved time and saved expense". Not sure if the HD service techs think the
>> same way...
>Went that route when my tensioners on a Y2K dresser went TU on the road,
>also in VT. Dealer was swamped and agreed to get me turned around if I'd
>accept the quickest easiest fix.... which wasn't necessarily the cheapest.
>The adjustables were probably a wash, the additional labor woulda probably
>come close to them. Having adjustables for future ease of service isn't a
>bad idea anyway.
>> Seems that I recall reading here that around '07 HD did a re-design on the
>> cam plate, with the goal of eliminating the cam spring tensioner problems.
>> I remember when the re-design was offically announced, HD said there would
>> be a retrofit/upgrade kit for older TC88's, but I don't think they've ever
>> made that kit available, for reasons unknown.
>I've heard of folks upgrading to the new tensioner setup. H-D may not have a
>"kit" but you oughta be able to get the parts ala carte.
>> I understand that some aftermarket parts are available to do this
>> (Andrews?). Has anyone actually done a cam tensioner upgrade on a 99-06
>> Twin Cam, replacing the old design with the current one?
>There's some threads on the HDForum, probably also on Harley Tech Talk and
>VTwin forum. Some good places for more in depth research.
>> A final question: would it make sense to get the tappets/lifters swapped
>> out, while they're "in there"?
>Absolutely, positively. "While yer in there", might want to take a look at
>the cams with a jaundiced eye as well. Perfect time to upgrade the cams and
>perhaps consider gear drive as well.
>> Thanks, and you better have another round!
>If you insist.........
We know you wouldn't otherwise.............
Jinks ('86FXRS, '07FLTR)
#64
Remember, "No good deed goes unpunished"
Posted by Jinks on April 16, 2008, 4:43 pm
wrote:
>Have something you like on me while I ask for your advice...
>I've got a 2000 Road Glide, with 99,999 on the odometer (pic
>may appear at the binary group next door).
>The cam and cam bearing (which was problematic with bikes
>built in late 1999, like mine) was changed out early in the
>bike's life, before I had any trouble with them, and has
>never been a problem.
>The outboard cam tensioner broke at 60,000 while on an
>overnight trip to Vermont a few years' back. I was lucky
>enough to get to Wilkins HD in Barre, and they took it in
>and fixed it up on the spot. At the time, the tech who did
>the work said that the _inboard_ tensioner looked ok, and
>since changing that would have involved significantly more
>work (and time), I let it go.
>But lately I'm getting a little more noise out of the cam
>area of the bike with the engine under power, and I reckon
>it's time to get that inboard tensioner (actually, both of
>them) changed out. It's not making a racket, but something
>is whisperin' that the tensioners are nearing the end of
>their life.
>I recall the Wilkin's tech guy saying that to remove the cam
>bearing plate and get access to the inboard tensioner, the
>head covers have to come off (pushrods, I assume). So this
>leads me to think that there might be TWO ways to have the
>tensioners swapped out:
>First [standard?] way: pull the head covers, do the work
>"down below", reinstall head covers with solid pushrods.
>But could there be a "second way", that is, cut the existing
>pushrods, do the work, then replace with _adjustable_
>pushrods? Could the rods then be adjusted into shape withOUT
>having to remove the heads? I'm thinking "saved time and
>saved expense". Not sure if the HD service techs think the
>same way...
>Seems that I recall reading here that around '07 HD did a
>re-design on the cam plate, with the goal of eliminating the
>cam spring tensioner problems. I remember when the re-design
>was offically announced, HD said there would be a
>retrofit/upgrade kit for older TC88's, but I don't think
>they've ever made that kit available, for reasons unknown.
>I understand that some aftermarket parts are available to do
>this (Andrews?). Has anyone actually done a cam tensioner
>upgrade on a 99-06 Twin Cam, replacing the old design with
>the current one?
>A final question: would it make sense to get the
>tappets/lifters swapped out, while they're "in there"?
>Thanks, and you better have another round!
>- John
You're right about changing to adjustable push rods, but while
you're in there why not change to gear drive cams & be done with the
problem all together?
Jinks ('86FXRS, '07FLTR)
#64
Remember, "No good deed goes unpunished"
Posted by me on April 16, 2008, 5:17 pm
wrote:
>I recall the Wilkin's tech guy saying that to remove the cam
>bearing plate and get access to the inboard tensioner, the
>head covers have to come off (pushrods, I assume). So this
>leads me to think that there might be TWO ways to have the
>tensioners swapped out:
>First [standard?] way: pull the head covers, do the work
>"down below", reinstall head covers with solid pushrods.
>But could there be a "second way", that is, cut the existing
>pushrods, do the work, then replace with _adjustable_
we just used a set of bolt cutters, kind of fun cuttin up a hd with
bolt cutters!
>pushrods? Could the rods then be adjusted into shape withOUT
>having to remove the heads? I'm thinking "saved time and
>saved expense". Not sure if the HD service techs think the
>same way
well you spent more in parts for adjustable push rods, but didn;t pull
the rocker covers and rockers off , it;s probably a wash at HD retail
prices for the adjustable push rods
>Seems that I recall reading here that around '07 HD did a
>re-design on the cam plate, with the goal of eliminating the
>cam spring tensioner problems. I remember when the re-design
>was offically announced, HD said there would be a
>retrofit/upgrade kit for older TC88's, but I don't think
>they've ever made that kit available, for reasons unknown.
>I understand that some aftermarket parts are available to do
yea, gear drive and be done forever!
I think kickstart likes his setup ok
>A final question: would it make sense to get the
>tappets/lifters swapped out, while they're "in there"?
99k yes
>Thanks, and you better have another round!
>- John
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> the binary group next door).