Beverages all around. Posted here and around.
My bike has always been hard to start. And by hard to start sometimes
I wonder if it will or not. I always attributed it to the starter
might not be up to the added strain of the 103 build. After a crank
in public where I was asked "What the heck was that" and a
conversation with TL I finally had it checked.
At the dealer bright and early Saturday morning about 8:30. Service
department was not busy.
Asked the service writer to step outside with me and look at my bike.
His bike is sitting 5 feet away from mine with the same engine build.
Then I ask him to start my bike 4 times.
1st time - Starts right up.
2nd time - He says "What?"
3rd time - He says "That's not right"
4th time - He says "DANG"
He starts his 3 times and makes the statement "Not quite the same is
it?" We walk back in and the technicians ask what the ugly noise from
outside was. Trouble shooting starts:
1. Primary cover pulled and teeth inspected. Fine
2. Battery is showing good but a bit low. Battery pulled, charged
and reinstalled. Problem is still there.
3. They have a transmission on the shelf to be returned due to paint
peeling. My transmission removed and the other installed. Problem is
still there. Mine reinstalled.
4. TP sensor pulled and inspected for metal. Nope.
Head scratching. Computer searched. There is a service bulletin
concerning early P&A 103 Stage II kits. Seems the timing mark for
the rear cam was incorrect on some. Doesn't tell you what was the
wrong position just what the correct one should be. Technicians are
thinking that if the timing mark is advanced 1 notch then the bike
would start hard, then the ECM would compensate to allow it to run.
Mine is one of the very first 103 SII kits built for the 2007 models.
So at 1:30 I saddled up and headed to the beach. Rode all around, not
one threw rocks at me or tried to run me off the road, and it started
every time. Started hard but started.
Tuesday morning I drop it back off to have the cams inspected.
Hopefully that's the problem. If not I may be at MISFIT in a car.
Side note: 2009 rumor. While at my dealer I had a chance to look at
a nice shiny 2009 bike that was shipped in last week with 4 or 5 2008
models last week. It was a Sportster and looked just like the 2008
model.
Dave (Dukes Sheep)
'07 FLHTCU NAH#2 DOF #5 SENS
"Oh bother" said Pooh, as he was connected at 14.4kps
A: Because it disturbs the logical flow of the message.
Q: Why is topposting frowned upon?
Sheep wrote:
> Beverages all around. Posted here and around.
> My bike has always been hard to start. And by hard to start sometimes
> I wonder if it will or not. I always attributed it to the starter
> might not be up to the added strain of the 103 build. After a crank
> in public where I was asked "What the heck was that" and a
> conversation with TL I finally had it checked.
Hard to start as in turns over slow? If so has anyone checked the static
compression pressure, it may be to high. How does it start if you use a
battery charger on it. If it turns over faster with a 30 amp charge on it
I'd say that your problem is to much static pressure. Just in case you want
to check here is some information that can help.
What causes high static compression pressures:
1. Compression ratio set too high.
2. Intake cam duration is too short.
3. Intake cam closing point advanced too much.
Compression pressures which are too high, can result in detonation
or "pinging" and possible rapid starter motor wear.
What causes low static compression pressures:
1. Compression ratio set too low
2. Intake cam duration too long
3. Intake cam closing point set too late
4.Worn piston rings and/or burned valves
Compression pressures which are too low, will result in poor low
RPM torque and throttle response.
Less than 115 psi: Poor low speed response, hard starting. Pistons and cams
not well matched or worn rings, valves.
125 to 145 psi: OK for stock or modified street motors. On the low end for a
stock street motor.
145 to 165 psi: OK for modified street motors. Static pressures in this
range will be very good for street motors.
165 to 185 psi: Marginal for large displacement street motors, possible hard
starting, detonation and overheating.
Over 185 psi: High performance numbers. Motors over 185 PSI may need
compression releases and/or octane booster.
The above recommendations are not absolute but the point is that static
compression is important. Proper matching of cams and compression ratios
will allow engines to be modified for more performance and still run
smoothly in street applications.
The figures below give some idea as to the significance of different
pressure readings. Generally, higher static pressures mean more torque at
lower RPM ranges. The trade off is that above a certain point (around185
PSI) detonation enters the picture. What happens at higher RPM is less
predictable and can't be easily determined from a static pressure reading.
For the best overall engine performance, compression ratio, cam timing,
duration and fuel system tuning must be correctly matched. Static or
cranking compression pressure is what each cylinder experiences when the
starter motor is turning the engine or when the engine is running at idle
RPM. Please don't confuse static compression with "compression ratio" which
has to do with how much volume remains in the cylinder combustion chamber
when the piston is at the top of its' stroke. Static compression and
compression ratio are related but the definition of each is different.
Compression pressures that are too high can result in difficult starting and
detonation or "pinging" which in turn can cause engine damage. Modifying an
engine by changing pistons, camshafts or compression ratios will all have a
direct effect on static or cranking compression pressure. If the static
compression pressure is too high or too low, the engine will not run as well
as it should and in some cases, the resulting problems can be serious.
Static or cranking compression can easily be measured with a
compression-testing gauge. Cost is usually less than $25.00 and most auto
supply stores or well equipped motorcycle shops sell them. When installing
cams with high lifts and long duration's, a few general observations are
worth keeping in mind. Remember that additional cam duration can produce
more usable power but too much duration may actually hurt overall
performance. The problem of poor engine response begins when too much
duration results in lower cylinder compression pressure (at low RPM) which
in turn can greatly reduce low RPM engine torque and power. Too much
duration in a camshaft is not necessarily a good thing.
How to Measure Compression Pressure:
With a warm engine(not hot, just warm), static compression pressure
can be measured using the following procedure:
1. Turn off fuel valve
2. Make sure choke is off
3. Transmission in neutral
4. Remove both spark plugs
5. Insert pressure gage adapter into one head
6. Hold throttle wide open
7. Turn engine with starter motor (or kick start bar)
8. Measure cylinder pressure
9. Repeat procedure for second cylinder
Important note:
If the throttle is not held wide open and the choke
is not off, the resulting pressure measurement will show a false
low reading. Also some gauges have a rubber tip instead of a
screw in adapter. Using either type of gauge, measuring static
pressure in your engine is not difficult
--
Carl
99 FLSTF
I started out with nothing and
I just about have that paid for
Remove one 9 to reply
Sheep wrote:
> Beverages all around.
Popsicles made of grape juice with a shot of lime concentrate
for a tangy flavor. Great in this hot weather.
> My bike has always been hard to start. And by hard to start sometimes
> I wonder if it will or not. I always attributed it to the starter
> might not be up to the added strain of the 103 build.
My 95ci Ultra is slow starting. I turn on the ignition, wait for the
little red light to go out and then here's what happens (sound effects
rendered as close as I could with text):
press starter button
"garunt"
long silent pause, seems like a second or more. finally:
"oof oof wow oof oof wow oof oof wow oof oof BANG oof oof wow
oof oof KA-BANG oof oof KA-BANG BANG BANG KA-BANG"
[releasing the starter button and giving it some throttle]
"POTATO POTATO POTATO..."
I'm baffled by the long pause after I press the starter button. This
happens even when the battery is in good condition (got it loaded tested
by a battery dealership).
Sean_Q_
'99 FLHTCUI SE3
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> My bike has always been hard to start. And by hard to start sometimes
> I wonder if it will or not. I always attributed it to the starter
> might not be up to the added strain of the 103 build. After a crank
> in public where I was asked "What the heck was that" and a
> conversation with TL I finally had it checked.