Posted by Andrzej Rosa on August 26, 2008, 1:06 pm
Venture Rider wrote:
> On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:00:51 -0700 (PDT), Twibil said:
>
>>
>>> > Venture Rider wrote:
>>> > > Anyone here riding on a car tire? I've been reading a lot about this
>>> > > and find it quite interesting. They call it the "darkside".
>>
>>> > There's a bunch of really good reasons why they make bike tires
>>> > differently than car tires, and I am smart enough to realize that
>>> > engineers who design bike tires for a living are way better at it
>>> > than I am. But hey, maybe all these car-tire-onna-bike guys
>>> > found out something that was supposed to be kept hidden from us!
>>> > Well done, and let us know how your experiments go.
>>>
>>> Especially the leaning it over in the corner part.
>>
>>What? Didn't you know that bikes no longer have to bother with that
>>confusing countersteering stuff if you put car tires on 'em?
>>
>>Thereafter, they turn just like cars; no leaning required.
>
> I'm not saying I'm going to try this but I do think it's interesting
> nonetheless. I'm curious to know if anyone here has done it.
While not exactly on car tires, I rode on square tires, which were further
squared totally flat by being used on a sidecar rig. Bike handles badly on
such tires, but it's rideable. Especially if only your rear tire is
square, it can be done. Actually it was quite popular to put a car wheel
on Russian boxers when I was young and handsome, but I never tried it
myself.
On a cruiser? Sure, why not. I would use a car tire if I rode a cruiser.
> From http://lifeisaroad.com/stories/2004/10/27/theDarkSide.html
>
> This guy has been running a car tire on his Valkyrie for quite some
> time and here is what he says about that:
>
> ----------------------
> How does it handle?
> I am happy with it. It is very smooth and stable at high speeds, and
> for me at least, at very low speeds (full deflection turns for
> instance) it is an improvement over the motorcycle tire. Basically,
> I've found it to be superior in all conditions.
>
> There are two areas of difference in feel:
> It requires active counter-steering to put the bike in a corner. The
> Valkyrie has always required a firm hand, and this is not
> significantly different. The difference is that on the motorcycle
> tire, once the bike was stable in a corner, driver input on the
> handlebars is not really needed. The bike will stay in the turn unless
> power is applied or removed, or the terrain/surface of the road
> changes. With the car tire, the counter-steering input is required the
> entire time the bike is in the corner. If it is released, the bike
> will straighten up on its own. Those of you that push the twisties and
> know how to drag pegs (really know how to turn) will understand it
> right away.
>
> The other difference is in what I'll call "bump steer" Varying
> terrain, such as a ridge on the road, a track in a dirt road, or an
> angle or crown to the road will give much more feedback than they do
> on a motorcycle tire. The bike will have the tendency to turn
> downhill. At highway speeds this is not an issue (not felt), at lower
> speeds, again, it requires a firm hand on the handlebars and the bike
> remains well behaved. It is just telling you what it feels on the
> road. You feel the steering inputs, you do not have to accept them. I
> prefer the feel, as it puts me much more in touch with what's going on
> with the road conditions.
>
> The bike turns as aggressively as it ever did. This has not impacted
> my speeds or angles of lean in turns. I can still drag pegs when I
> want to, and it has not slowed me down a bit. I am much more confident
> in wet conditions and with hard braking.
> ----------------------
This might be true, but once I changed from square tires to proper solo
tires, the difference in handling of my Ural was indescribable. You could
actually lean your bike then, without brown fear, you know.
Well, it doesn't cost much to try it, does it? You won't immediately kill
yourself by doing it, so just go ahead.
--
Andrzej Rosa
Posted by Venture Rider on August 25, 2008, 5:28 pm
On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 13:33:31 -0700 (PDT), Rob Kleinschmidt said:
>> Venture Rider wrote:
>> > Anyone here riding on a car tire? I've been reading a lot about this
>> > and find it quite interesting. They call it the "darkside".
>> There's a bunch of really good reasons why they make bike tires
>> differently than car tires, and I am smart enough to realize that
>> engineers who design bike tires for a living are way better at it
>> than I am. But hey, maybe all these car-tire-onna-bike guys
>> found out something that was supposed to be kept hidden from us!
>> Well done, and let us know how your experiments go.
>Especially the leaning it over in the corner part.
The car tire goes on the back, not on the front. Folks are using them
on the big cruisers. Here's some interesting reading:
http://lifeisaroad.com/stories/2004/10/27/theDarkSide.html
--
"What, me worry?" - Alfred E. Neuman
Posted by Rob Kleinschmidt on August 25, 2008, 5:43 pm
> On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 13:33:31 -0700 (PDT), Rob Kleinschmidt said:
> >> Venture Rider wrote:
> >> > Anyone here riding on a car tire? I've been reading a lot about this
> >> > and find it quite interesting. They call it the "darkside".
> >> There's a bunch of really good reasons why they make bike tires
> >> differently than car tires, and I am smart enough to realize that
> >> engineers who design bike tires for a living are way better at it
> >> than I am. But hey, maybe all these car-tire-onna-bike guys
> >> found out something that was supposed to be kept hidden from us!
> >> Well done, and let us know how your experiments go.
> >Especially the leaning it over in the corner part.
> The car tire goes on the back, not on the front. Folks are using them
> on the big cruisers. Here's some interesting reading:
> http://lifeisaroad.com/stories/2004/10/27/theDarkSide.html
The few bikes I've seen that ran big flattish rear tires
all handled like shit on windy curvy roads. Looking
at his pictures, doesn't look like he ever leans it over
very far. As long as I never wind up following bikes
like that, I'm fine with them.
Posted by Bob Myers on August 25, 2008, 5:49 pm
> The car tire goes on the back, not on the front. Folks are using them
> on the big cruisers. Here's some interesting reading:
So on a "big cruiser," the rear wheel never leans over?
Always wondered about that...
Bob M.
Posted by JREwing on August 25, 2008, 6:01 pm
e:
> So on a "big cruiser," the rear wheel never leans over?
> Always wondered about that...
If the motorcycle is never leaned more than about 25 degrees from
vertical,
a car tire on the back will work ok, but will resist turning from a
straight line.
Motorcycles get most of their cornering force from camber thrust, up
to
25 degrees lean angle.
Car suspension geometries work to minimize camber thrust.
Bridgestone explains this so much better than I can, they have
pictures and graphs.
mc.bridgestone.co.jp/pdf/mcintroe.pdf
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>
>>
>>> > Venture Rider wrote:
>>> > > Anyone here riding on a car tire? I've been reading a lot about this
>>> > > and find it quite interesting. They call it the "darkside".
>>
>>> > There's a bunch of really good reasons why they make bike tires
>>> > differently than car tires, and I am smart enough to realize that
>>> > engineers who design bike tires for a living are way better at it
>>> > than I am. But hey, maybe all these car-tire-onna-bike guys
>>> > found out something that was supposed to be kept hidden from us!
>>> > Well done, and let us know how your experiments go.
>>>
>>> Especially the leaning it over in the corner part.
>>
>>What? Didn't you know that bikes no longer have to bother with that
>>confusing countersteering stuff if you put car tires on 'em?
>>
>>Thereafter, they turn just like cars; no leaning required.
>
> I'm not saying I'm going to try this but I do think it's interesting
> nonetheless. I'm curious to know if anyone here has done it.