Posted by Eigenvector on April 17, 2008, 11:07 am
>>I was watching James Bond, For Your Eyes Only last night and noticed the 2
>>dual sports in the movie. A couple of bad guys on a bikes fitted for snow
>>travel (well spiked tires anyway - this was in Cortina). Anyway, since
>>the movie was made in 1981, I figured, these must be pretty early versions
>>of dual sports. The bikes looked like XT500's to me, but it also got me
>>thinking. Who can claim to have made the first purpose build dual sport
>>bike - Yamaha? Their XT500 was something like '76, but I thought they had
>>something even earlier than that, XS-1(?) or something like that. It sure
>>wasn't the KLR250, which was 1984ish. I always thought dual sport was
>>something of a newcomer to the motorcycle world. For the sake of
>>argument, I'll discount military vehicles since they aren't indended for
>>private sale.
> First one's I remember seeing were the 125/175/250 Yamahas back in late
> 60's.
> Goddamn I wanted one of those 250's. DT-1 or somesuch.
>>
So it sounds like Yamaha is the winner of this question. Not that I'm
claiming they're superior or even evaluating them - just it sounds like they
came out with the first.
Strangely enough I rarely see any other kind on the road except for
Kawasakis and BMW's, the dual sport market must be pretty damn small.
Although I do see an occasional Husqavarna on the road - and I thought all
they made were chainsaws!
Posted by Jeff Mayner on April 17, 2008, 2:20 pm
Eigenvector wrote:
>>
>>> I was watching James Bond, For Your Eyes Only last night and
>>> noticed the 2 dual sports in the movie. A couple of bad guys on a
>>> bikes fitted for snow travel (well spiked tires anyway - this was
>>> in Cortina). Anyway, since the movie was made in 1981, I figured,
>>> these must be pretty early versions of dual sports. The bikes
>>> looked like XT500's to me, but it also got me thinking. Who can
>>> claim to have made the first purpose build dual sport bike -
>>> Yamaha? Their XT500 was something like '76, but I thought they had
>>> something even earlier than that, XS-1(?) or something like that. It
>>> sure wasn't the KLR250, which was 1984ish. I always thought
>>> dual sport was something of a newcomer to the motorcycle world. For the
>>> sake of argument, I'll discount military vehicles since
>>> they aren't indended for private sale.
>>
>> First one's I remember seeing were the 125/175/250 Yamahas back in
>> late 60's.
>>
>> Goddamn I wanted one of those 250's. DT-1 or somesuch.
>>>
> So it sounds like Yamaha is the winner of this question. Not that I'm
> claiming they're superior or even evaluating them - just it sounds
> like they came out with the first.
> Strangely enough I rarely see any other kind on the road except for
> Kawasakis and BMW's, the dual sport market must be pretty damn small.
> Although I do see an occasional Husqavarna on the road - and I
> thought all they made were chainsaws!
True dual sports are made by KTM and Husky. Suzuki (DRZ) is a good
trailbike, but Suziki's own DR, Honda (650L) and Kawasaki (KLR) are dirt
road OK but you have to slap on some serious knobs to get them to go
anywhere else off-road.
The term Dual Sport seems to have morphed into a description of the V-Strom,
GS BMW's, and Harley's new one. Thumper has one.
Triumph's Tiger was actually more capable prior to the 1050's release a year
ago. Now it's mostly street. KTM still makes the 990 Adventure which in the
"S" model is a very capable off-road bike. Aprilia still makes the Camponard
(sp) which has more street bias IMO.
There are a few other Euro companys making decent off-road handling, street
capable bikes but you don't see them much over here. Just about every large
displacement KTM single (4 cycle) is now available as a street/dirt model
but their bias towards off-road makes them only OK for street duty. Same
with Husky. I'd love to have one of those blue and yellow 610's.
It's all a compromise. ;-)
Posted by Eigenvector on April 18, 2008, 7:32 pm
> Eigenvector wrote:
>>>
>>>> I was watching James Bond, For Your Eyes Only last night and
>>>> noticed the 2 dual sports in the movie. A couple of bad guys on a
>>>> bikes fitted for snow travel (well spiked tires anyway - this was
>>>> in Cortina). Anyway, since the movie was made in 1981, I figured,
>>>> these must be pretty early versions of dual sports. The bikes
>>>> looked like XT500's to me, but it also got me thinking. Who can
>>>> claim to have made the first purpose build dual sport bike -
>>>> Yamaha? Their XT500 was something like '76, but I thought they had
>>>> something even earlier than that, XS-1(?) or something like that. It
>>>> sure wasn't the KLR250, which was 1984ish. I always thought
>>>> dual sport was something of a newcomer to the motorcycle world. For the
>>>> sake of argument, I'll discount military vehicles since
>>>> they aren't indended for private sale.
>>>
>>> First one's I remember seeing were the 125/175/250 Yamahas back in
>>> late 60's.
>>>
>>> Goddamn I wanted one of those 250's. DT-1 or somesuch.
>>>>
>>
>> So it sounds like Yamaha is the winner of this question. Not that I'm
>> claiming they're superior or even evaluating them - just it sounds
>> like they came out with the first.
>>
>> Strangely enough I rarely see any other kind on the road except for
>> Kawasakis and BMW's, the dual sport market must be pretty damn small.
>> Although I do see an occasional Husqavarna on the road - and I
>> thought all they made were chainsaws!
> True dual sports are made by KTM and Husky. Suzuki (DRZ) is a good
> trailbike, but Suziki's own DR, Honda (650L) and Kawasaki (KLR) are dirt
> road OK but you have to slap on some serious knobs to get them to go
> anywhere else off-road.
> The term Dual Sport seems to have morphed into a description of the
> V-Strom, GS BMW's, and Harley's new one. Thumper has one.
> Triumph's Tiger was actually more capable prior to the 1050's release a
> year ago. Now it's mostly street. KTM still makes the 990 Adventure which
> in the "S" model is a very capable off-road bike. Aprilia still makes the
> Camponard (sp) which has more street bias IMO.
> There are a few other Euro companys making decent off-road handling,
> street capable bikes but you don't see them much over here. Just about
> every large displacement KTM single (4 cycle) is now available as a
> street/dirt model but their bias towards off-road makes them only OK for
> street duty. Same with Husky. I'd love to have one of those blue and
> yellow 610's.
> It's all a compromise. ;-)
Well I'll discount the tires issue, any true (oops I've said it now!) biker
is going to buy tires for the intended use not what is on the bike when
bought. But in KLR's defense the knobbies on my KLR650 are probably 80/20
off-road/street. On the other hand, I personally wouldn't take the KLR
truly off-road, it's not really what I think it's intended for. More its
intended for riding on rough gravel roads, easy dirt trails, and pavement.
Whereas I think the cruisers are made for at most gravel roads and pavement.
Yeah I guess you're right, it is all about compromise.
Posted by Rayvan on April 17, 2008, 4:06 pm
> >>I was watching James Bond, For Your Eyes Only last night and noticed the 2
> >>dual sports in the movie. A couple of bad guys on a bikes fitted for snow
> >>travel (well spiked tires anyway - this was in Cortina). Anyway, since
> >>the movie was made in 1981, I figured, these must be pretty early versions
> >>of dual sports. The bikes looked like XT500's to me, but it also got me
> >>thinking. Who can claim to have made the first purpose build dual sport
> >>bike - Yamaha? Their XT500 was something like '76, but I thought they had
> >>something even earlier than that, XS-1(?) or something like that. It sure
> >>wasn't the KLR250, which was 1984ish. I always thought dual sport was
> >>something of a newcomer to the motorcycle world. For the sake of
> >>argument, I'll discount military vehicles since they aren't indended for
> >>private sale.
> > First one's I remember seeing were the 125/175/250 Yamahas back in late
> > 60's.
> > Goddamn I wanted one of those 250's. DT-1 or somesuch.
> So it sounds like Yamaha is the winner of this question. Not that I'm
> claiming they're superior or even evaluating them - just it sounds like they
> came out with the first.
I don't think so.
Matchless sold a 500cc called a G80CS dirt/street motorcycle in the
early fifties. Also, in 1953 Harley-Davidson model KRM. Rare model,
only built from 1953-55. Intended for street and/or desert racing. Not
sayin they was first, I just saying it was much earlier than the DT
series Yamahas.
FWIW, the K-series Harley bikes evenually evolved into the Sportster
model in 1957.
I think there were XLCH Sportster scramblers available at that time as
well. Basically a tall Sportster with knobbies.
--
Rayvan
Posted by Rob Kleinschmidt on April 17, 2008, 4:54 pm
> > >>I was watching James Bond, For Your Eyes Only last night and noticed the 2
> > >>dual sports in the movie. A couple of bad guys on a bikes fitted for snow
> > >>travel (well spiked tires anyway - this was in Cortina). Anyway, since
> > >>the movie was made in 1981, I figured, these must be pretty early versions
> > >>of dual sports. The bikes looked like XT500's to me, but it also got me
> > >>thinking. Who can claim to have made the first purpose build dual sport
> > >>bike - Yamaha? Their XT500 was something like '76, but I thought they had
> > >>something even earlier than that, XS-1(?) or something like that. It sure
> > >>wasn't the KLR250, which was 1984ish. I always thought dual sport was
> > >>something of a newcomer to the motorcycle world. For the sake of
> > >>argument, I'll discount military vehicles since they aren't indended for
> > >>private sale.
> > > First one's I remember seeing were the 125/175/250 Yamahas back in late
> > > 60's.
> > > Goddamn I wanted one of those 250's. DT-1 or somesuch.
> > So it sounds like Yamaha is the winner of this question. Not that I'm
> > claiming they're superior or even evaluating them - just it sounds like they
> > came out with the first.
> I don't think so.
> Matchless sold a 500cc called a G80CS dirt/street motorcycle in the
> early fifties. Also, in 1953 Harley-Davidson model KRM. Rare model,
> only built from 1953-55. Intended for street and/or desert racing. Not
> sayin they was first, I just saying it was much earlier than the DT
> series Yamahas.
> FWIW, the K-series Harley bikes evenually evolved into the Sportster
> model in 1957.
> I think there were XLCH Sportster scramblers available at that time as
> well. Basically a tall Sportster with knobbies.
The ISDT trials date back to at least the 1930s.
Through the early '60s, a typical trials bike was
usually a lightly modified street machine, always
supposed to be ridden in your Belstaff waxed
cotton trials suit.
Back in the day, I used to have a little '57 Zundapp
250 two stroke that was pretty dirt capable and
bore some strong resemblance to the Yamaha
singles of the '70s. The later Rickman/Zundapp
125s are collectors items.
There was also an enormous crop of Brit Villiers
engined two strokes, including Greeves and
Cotton and a whole bunch more eastern
European bikes such as CZ, andJawa
Nice link:
http://www.mxbikes.com/vintage/ .
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>>dual sports in the movie. A couple of bad guys on a bikes fitted for snow
>>travel (well spiked tires anyway - this was in Cortina). Anyway, since
>>the movie was made in 1981, I figured, these must be pretty early versions
>>of dual sports. The bikes looked like XT500's to me, but it also got me
>>thinking. Who can claim to have made the first purpose build dual sport
>>bike - Yamaha? Their XT500 was something like '76, but I thought they had
>>something even earlier than that, XS-1(?) or something like that. It sure
>>wasn't the KLR250, which was 1984ish. I always thought dual sport was
>>something of a newcomer to the motorcycle world. For the sake of
>>argument, I'll discount military vehicles since they aren't indended for
>>private sale.
> First one's I remember seeing were the 125/175/250 Yamahas back in late
> 60's.
> Goddamn I wanted one of those 250's. DT-1 or somesuch.
>>