Posted by The Older Gentleman on July 13, 2010, 5:02 pm
> And then you've got a guy like me who rides Suzuki but wears a BMW suit
> because it's the best suit available that can be obtained locally and
> tried on before buying, and Triumph gloves because they fit and are
> comfortable.
Yes, but you're just an awkward sod.
<fx: contemplates old black leather jacket, black leather plain boots,
and plain black leather gloves>
--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Honda CB400F Triumph Street Triple
Suzuki TS250ER GN250 Damn, back to six bikes!
Try Googling before asking a damn silly question.
chateau dot murray at idnet dot com
Posted by tomorrow@erols.com on July 14, 2010, 12:30 pm
> On 7/13/2010 2:37 PM, The Older Gentleman wrote:
> >> I also know that Harley makes more on sales of Harley-branded
> >> merchandise than Ducati makes on all their motorcycles combined, and I
> >> regularly visit my favorite Ducati shiop and see them emulating
> >> Harley's shops wrt their clothing and brand-labeled merchandise. It's
> >> quite entertaining, and it's indisputable that that is what they are
> >> doing.
> >> And, it's not stupid or demeaning - it's smart.
> > Ah, the merchandising of the bits. Yes, I agree here 100%. HD showed how
> > it could be done and has been copied everywhere.
> >>> As for brand recognition, Ducati, only a few years ago, was voted the
> >>> world's top brand by... I forget who. Ducati's image is *incredibly*
> >>> strong: there really is no other motorcycle builder who is so
> >>> instantly identified with pure sporting motorcycles, except possibly
> >>> MV. Just like Harley is instantly identifed with cruising/touring
> >>> bikes
> >> Which simply illustrates that successful motorcycle companies do NOT
> >> have to make lawn mowers, generators, cars, and airplanes in addition
> >> to motorcycles.
> > True
> >>> Finally, if you think Ducati is trying to emulate Harley, you're
> >>> living in a dream world :-)
> >> Oh, but they are. They would love to hve Harley's world-wide sales,
> >> profits, and logo income. And they are doing everything they can to
> >> get there.
> > I thought you were originally referring to the bikes. I still think
> > Ducati is a case apart here, but I agree that their merchandising of the
> > logo and image apes HD.
> >> And it's working. I meet people every month who know nothing about
> >> motorcycles at all, buying and riding Ducati motorcycles and Ducati
> >> helmets and Ducati jackets and Ducati gloves, simply because they saw
> >> a Ducati in some movie or some GQ-type magazine, and decided they are
> >> "cool." Just like the guy who knows nothing about bikes, but buys a
> >> Harley because that's the brand name that he has heard the most about
> >> and thinks it is "cool."
> > Yes. See above.
> And then you've got a guy like me who rides Suzuki but wears a BMW suit
> because it's the best suit available that can be obtained locally and
> tried on before buying, and Triumph gloves because they fit and are
> comfortable.
I think that's probably illustrative of experienced motorcyclists who
are not wedded to one brand. I wear Aerostich Roadcrafters, Sidi
boots, Harley-Davidson branded gloves (as well as Aplinestars and
Tourmaster), a Joe Rocket armpred mesh summer jacket, HJC and Shoei
helmets, L.L. Bean goretex raingear, and Gerbing electrically heated
clothing in the winter. Oh, and Triumph, Norton, Harley, and Ducati
t-shirts.
Posted by Vito on July 13, 2010, 11:25 am
J. Clarke wrote:
>> On 7/12/2010 11:32 PM, don (Calgary) wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bail-out or not? Other factors aside, the answer depends a lot
>>>> on your views on government intervention in a "free" market.
>>>
>>> I am the last one to condone governments messing with the free
>>> market, but it wasn't a free market. The Japanese had already
>>> screwed it up. They had used similar techniques in the past to
>>> dominate the consumer electronic product business.
>>
>> What techniques, making a better and more technologically advanced
>> product?
>>
No, by government subsidizing of products that didn't sell.
Posted by TOG@Toil on July 13, 2010, 12:00 pm
> J. Clarke wrote:
> >> On 7/12/2010 11:32 PM, don (Calgary) wrote:
> >>>> Bail-out or not? Other factors aside, the answer depends a lot
> >>>> on your views on government intervention in a "free" market.
> >>> I am the last one to condone governments messing with the free
> >>> market, but it wasn't a free market. The Japanese had already
> >>> screwed it up. They had used similar techniques in the past to
> >>> dominate the consumer electronic product business.
> >> What techniques, making a better and more technologically advanced
> >> product?
> No, by government subsidizing of products that didn't sell
I am pretty certain you are wrong here. What happened in the early
1980s was *not* foreseen nor wanted by Japan's government.And it
wasn't government subsidies.
When products do not sell, you cut the price and clear stocks. It
happens *everywhere*. Most recently, I've seen all those 'England'
football flags discounted from £1 each to just 10p in a local
shop :-)) Is that dumping? No, it's not.
Something very odd happened in the Jap bike industry in the early
1980s, and I'm still waiting to see if anyone else here knows what it
was.
Posted by Vito on July 13, 2010, 2:40 pm
TOG@Toil wrote:
>> J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> On 7/12/2010 11:32 PM, don (Calgary) wrote:
>>
>>>>>> Bail-out or not? Other factors aside, the answer depends a lot
>>>>>> on your views on government intervention in a "free" market.
>>
>>>>> I am the last one to condone governments messing with the free
>>>>> market, but it wasn't a free market. The Japanese had already
>>>>> screwed it up. They had used similar techniques in the past to
>>>>> dominate the consumer electronic product business.
>>
>>>> What techniques, making a better and more technologically advanced
>>>> product?
>>
>> No, by government subsidizing of products that didn't sell
> I am pretty certain you are wrong here.
H-D proved it in court.
> What happened in the early
> 1980s was *not* foreseen nor wanted by Japan's government.And it
> wasn't government subsidies.
I agree it wasn't wanted of forseen but it happened. And yes it was
government subsidy.
> When products do not sell, you cut the price and clear stocks.
Sure, and you stop making them. But that meant layoffs and unemployment
benefits. So, rather than pay those benefits, the gummymint subsidized the
lines that didn't sell. I wanted to buy a then-new Goldwing Interstate but
my dealer was out of them. So he offered me last years model - brand new -
for $1000 bucks less with Vetter luggage. Hard for H-D to compete with
that.
> Something very odd happened in the Jap bike industry in the early
> 1980s, and I'm still waiting to see if anyone else here knows what it
> was.
Overproduction ....
> because it's the best suit available that can be obtained locally and
> tried on before buying, and Triumph gloves because they fit and are
> comfortable.