MSF Course Pain and Suffering

Just looking for any feedback here ...

I was going to loan my Shadow 600 to a friend who was taking the MSF course
with her hubby about a week ago. My expectation was that both would enjoy
it and pass it.

The weekend had pouring rain, nonstop.

During the Saturday riding session, the hubby fell twice in braking-related
incidents, and his knee became very swollen. He medical'd out of the
course. However, my friend was still on for the Sunday riding session
without her hubby.

During the exam for maximum performance braking, she dropped the bike (front
wheel lockup in the rain). So, she failed the course and got banged up a
bit.

When I visited them this weekend, they were somewhat demoralized but not
ready to sell their helmets quite yet.

I told them that it was patently unfair to hold an MSF basic rider course in
the rain. The issue in my mind is that for most motorcycles, the front
brake takes an awful lot of force to lock up on dry pavement. In the rain,
it gets easier.

Opinions? Advice?

Posted by Bob Myers on September 22, 2008, 1:28 am

> I told them that it was patently unfair to hold an MSF basic rider course

> in the rain. The issue in my mind is that for most motorcycles, the front

> brake takes an awful lot of force to lock up on dry pavement. In the

> rain, it gets easier.

I can see your point, but there are a couple of others to
consider, too:

- A graduate of the BRC, at least in most states, can take
their certificate, walk into the nearest DMV office, and walk
out with a nice new motorcycle endorsement, no questions asked.
That will make them *legal* to ride a motorcycle anywhere they
want to, under any conditions - including rain. Would you
rather they find out they can't do it THEN - or under controlled
conditions, with a coach to help?

- Presumably, they had no experience with motorcycles going
into the course. That being the case, I would submit they were
just as likely to grab too much front brake on dry pavement
as in the wet. The whole point is to be able to feel when enough
becomes too much, and not quite get there. And I have to assume
that they got some training/practice in the rain before the test,
right?

How many others were in the class, and how many passed the
test?

Having said all that, though - I don't think they'll hold a class
around here if it's raining. I seem to recall that we had some
wet weather around the time I did my BRC, and that we skipped
an afternoon because of a wet parking lot. If you're in a place
where rain is a lot more common, though, it may just come
with the territory.

Bob M.

Posted by Twibil on September 22, 2008, 3:26 am

> Having said all that, though - I don't think they'll hold a class

> around here if it's raining. =A0I seem to recall that we had some

> wet weather around the time I did my BRC, and that we skipped

> an afternoon because of a wet parking lot. =A0If you're in a place

> where rain is a lot more common, though, it may just come

> with the territory.

If it's a typical California parking lot, slick as all heck after the
first rain what with the leftover grease and oil that got cooked into
it during 9 months of drought, I can see postponing the session until
conditions become more reasonable. If it's not particularly slippery,
I can't see why -as you say- it shouldn't just come with the
territory.

I mean, what sort of safety school avoids teaching you the things that
you *really* need to know?

Posted by High Plains Thumper on September 22, 2008, 6:23 am

Twibil wrote:

> "Bob Myers" wrote:

>> Having said all that, though - I don't think they'll hold a

>> class around here if it's raining. I seem to recall that we

>> had some wet weather around the time I did my BRC, and that

>> we skipped an afternoon because of a wet parking lot. If

>> you're in a place where rain is a lot more common, though,

>> it may just come with the territory.

> If it's a typical California parking lot, slick as all heck

> after the first rain what with the leftover grease and oil

> that got cooked into it during 9 months of drought, I can see

> postponing the session until conditions become more

> reasonable. If it's not particularly slippery, I can't see why

> -as you say- it shouldn't just come with the territory.

> I mean, what sort of safety school avoids teaching you the

> things that you *really* need to know?

[OT] Reminds me of a school in I think New Mexico, that had a
simulated real drill. A gunman came on campus swearing
profanities and firing a pistol with blanks. Afterwards, school
principal announced it was a drill.

Some of the teachers complained that they should have been told
it was a drill. Some had to dry out wet underwear. Problem is
that to teach people how to react properly during the real thing
requires realistic training.

Unfortunately, there are people in life who only think of
themselves instead of the best for others including themselves.

--
HPT

Posted by Timberwoof on September 22, 2008, 11:39 am

> Twibil wrote:

> > "Bob Myers" wrote:

> >

> >> Having said all that, though - I don't think they'll hold a

> >> class around here if it's raining. I seem to recall that we

> >> had some wet weather around the time I did my BRC, and that

> >> we skipped an afternoon because of a wet parking lot. If

> >> you're in a place where rain is a lot more common, though,

> >> it may just come with the territory.

> >

> > If it's a typical California parking lot, slick as all heck

> > after the first rain what with the leftover grease and oil

> > that got cooked into it during 9 months of drought, I can see

> > postponing the session until conditions become more

> > reasonable. If it's not particularly slippery, I can't see why

> > -as you say- it shouldn't just come with the territory.

> >

> > I mean, what sort of safety school avoids teaching you the

> > things that you *really* need to know?

> [OT] Reminds me of a school in I think New Mexico, that had a

> simulated real drill. A gunman came on campus swearing

> profanities and firing a pistol with blanks. Afterwards, school

> principal announced it was a drill.

> Some of the teachers complained that they should have been told

> it was a drill. Some had to dry out wet underwear. Problem is

> that to teach people how to react properly during the real thing

> requires realistic training.

> Unfortunately, there are people in life who only think of

> themselves instead of the best for others including themselves.

I disagree with the teaching philosophy that led to the gunman drill you
described. That's like teaching a kids to swim by throwing them into the
deep end of the pool. The only thing anyone learns from that kind of
"teaching" exercise is how people panic. If you want people to do the
right thing, you tell them how, you have them practice, and then you
have them try it in a realistic situation.

There are people in San Francisco's NERT program who think that by
screaming at citizen-volunteers during their testing they'll know what
it's like to do an emergency rescue under stress. My reaction might be
to turn around calmly to the person screaming and say, "Look, you're not
helping by panicking. Please sit down and shut up. I've got work to do."
Of course, Mrs. Scream At Them During The Test is not going to agree
with that approach, especially if it's her I'm telling to shut up.

--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com>
faq: http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle/faq.shtml
Ten Steps to Fascism: http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,2064157,00.html

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