MSF Course Pain and Suffering
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MSF Course Pain and Suffering David T. Ashley 09-22-2008
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Posted by David T. Ashley on September 22, 2008, 11:54 am


>
> I disagree with the teaching philosophy that led to the gunman drill you
> described. That's like teaching a kids to swim by throwing them into the
> deep end of the pool. The only thing anyone learns from that kind of
> "teaching" exercise is how people panic. If you want people to do the
> right thing, you tell them how, you have them practice, and then you
> have them try it in a realistic situation.
>
> There are people in San Francisco's NERT program who think that by
> screaming at citizen-volunteers during their testing they'll know what
> it's like to do an emergency rescue under stress. My reaction might be
> to turn around calmly to the person screaming and say, "Look, you're not
> helping by panicking. Please sit down and shut up. I've got work to do."
> Of course, Mrs. Scream At Them During The Test is not going to agree
> with that approach, especially if it's her I'm telling to shut up.

I agree with you.

My observation is also that MSF instructors in general aren't normal and
most aren't sensitive types.

Screaming and traumatizing isn't very productive.


Posted by Bob Myers on September 22, 2008, 12:23 pm



> I agree with you.
>
> My observation is also that MSF instructors in general aren't normal and
> most aren't sensitive types.

Hmmm. Luck of the draw, I guess, in your case. All of the MSF
instructors I've known have been good people, as patient with the
newbies as the constraints of the course permits, and with a good
deal of experience to pass along.

Bob M.



Posted by Timberwoof on September 22, 2008, 7:50 pm



> >
> > I disagree with the teaching philosophy that led to the gunman drill you
> > described. That's like teaching a kids to swim by throwing them into the
> > deep end of the pool. The only thing anyone learns from that kind of
> > "teaching" exercise is how people panic. If you want people to do the
> > right thing, you tell them how, you have them practice, and then you
> > have them try it in a realistic situation.
> >
> > There are people in San Francisco's NERT program who think that by
> > screaming at citizen-volunteers during their testing they'll know what
> > it's like to do an emergency rescue under stress. My reaction might be
> > to turn around calmly to the person screaming and say, "Look, you're not
> > helping by panicking. Please sit down and shut up. I've got work to do."
> > Of course, Mrs. Scream At Them During The Test is not going to agree
> > with that approach, especially if it's her I'm telling to shut up.
>
> I agree with you.
>
> My observation is also that MSF instructors in general aren't normal and
> most aren't sensitive types.

You've taken the MSF class often enough to have acquired a statistically
valid sample? =:o

I know a handful of MSF instructors; the two who taught the class I
attended and a couple more, one of whom is a friend of mine. I rode to
Sacramento with a bunch of 'em several years ago to visit Snell Labs
(report is on my web site). They seem like normally sensitive types.

As we rolled into a diner for lunch, the lead guy executed an impressive
swerve on his GoldWing to avoid a cager backing out of a space. If a big
GoldWing can whoo-whoop like that without falling down and going boom,
then anything can be done on a smaller bike!

> Screaming and traumatizing isn't very productive.

Which is why smile at folks when I give them the middle-finger salute.
}: )

--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com>
faq: http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle/faq.shtml

Posted by Mortimer Schnerd, RN on September 22, 2008, 7:36 am


Bob Myers wrote:
> - A graduate of the BRC, at least in most states, can take
> their certificate, walk into the nearest DMV office, and walk
> out with a nice new motorcycle endorsement, no questions asked.
> That will make them *legal* to ride a motorcycle anywhere they
> want to, under any conditions - including rain. Would you
> rather they find out they can't do it THEN - or under controlled
> conditions, with a coach to help?


At the end of my course, I'd never been beyond second gear; I'd never ridden
anything bigger than 250cc; and I'd never ridden on a city street. I took my
card the next day to the DMV and (as you said) used it in lieu of a road test to
get my motorcycle endorsement. All I had to do was take the written test.

So the next day I got to experience the 3rd, 4th and 5th gear, city streets and
a 500cc bike for the first time. I've yet to ride in the rain.

I think a good analogy is to being soloed as a student pilot. You have the
basic skills but you have a LOT to learn. Most of these lessons will be by
yourself and with any luck, you'll get through them without mishap. My hours on
a bike at the completion of the MSF course were virtually identical to when I
soloed as a pilot back in 1977.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com



Posted by Bob Myers on September 22, 2008, 10:47 am



"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote in message
> Bob Myers wrote:
>> - A graduate of the BRC, at least in most states, can take
>> their certificate, walk into the nearest DMV office, and walk
>> out with a nice new motorcycle endorsement, no questions asked.
>> That will make them *legal* to ride a motorcycle anywhere they
>> want to, under any conditions - including rain. Would you
>> rather they find out they can't do it THEN - or under controlled
>> conditions, with a coach to help?
>
>
> At the end of my course, I'd never been beyond second gear; I'd never
> ridden anything bigger than 250cc; and I'd never ridden on a city street.
> I took my card the next day to the DMV and (as you said) used it in lieu
> of a road test to get my motorcycle endorsement. All I had to do was take
> the written test.

Yup. And that's not a perfect system, but it's about as good
as we're going to see. Thanks to our wonderful legal system, in
which people will sue over such nonsense as spilling their own
coffee, no way are you ever going to have this kind of a class
given under any but the most controlled conditions possible.

> So the next day I got to experience the 3rd, 4th and 5th gear, city
> streets and a 500cc bike for the first time. I've yet to ride in the
> rain.

But hopefully, if the BRC did just ONE thing for you, it was to
impress upon you how much you didn't know, such that you
went about getting that experience on your own in a reasonably
responsible manner.

Bob M.



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