MSF Course Pain and Suffering
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MSF Course Pain and Suffering David T. Ashley 09-22-2008
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Posted by . on September 22, 2008, 7:18 pm



> >They need a regular source of revenue, just like any franchised fast
> >food joint.
>
> Unfortunately, you hit the nail on the head.

I have never taken an MSF course, but I have thought about it. And I
have read many negative messages from disgruntled students.

Apparently the riders who have no problems whatever go back and become
MSF instructors...
>
> It need not be a pure profit motive. =EF=BF=BDIt might be logistics as we=
ll. =EF=BF=BDIf the
> weather were to put, say, 40 students back into the waiting list for the =
MSF
> course, the logistics of rescheduling would be annoying.

Yes, I can understand the logic and logistics of the operation, but it
seldom rains in southern California and I have no need to ride during
the cold wet season in winter and spring and the hot wet monsoon of
summer.
>
> Easier, FAR easier, to just let the sardines slip and slide and fall.

Well, I was wondering if (a) your friends had to sign an accidental
death or injury waiver to take the MSF BRC and (b) if there are any
ambulance chasing lawyers out there who would like to take on this
manufacturer-sponsored profit-making group.

I supposed the MSF would have to recoup any losses from an adverse
judgement against them by raising the BRC fee to $500...

And that would be counterproductive for other MC wannabes...


Posted by [none] on September 22, 2008, 2:43 pm


David T. Ashley wrote:
> Just looking for any feedback here ...
>
> I was going to loan my Shadow 600 to a friend who was taking the MSF
> course with her hubby about a week ago. My expectation was that both
> would enjoy it and pass it.
>
> The weekend had pouring rain, nonstop.
>
> During the Saturday riding session, the hubby fell twice in
> braking-related incidents, and his knee became very swollen. He
> medical'd out of the course. However, my friend was still on for the
> Sunday riding session without her hubby.
>
> During the exam for maximum performance braking, she dropped the bike
> (front wheel lockup in the rain). So, she failed the course and got
> banged up a bit.
>
> When I visited them this weekend, they were somewhat demoralized but not
> ready to sell their helmets quite yet.
>
> I told them that it was patently unfair to hold an MSF basic rider
> course in the rain. The issue in my mind is that for most motorcycles,
> the front brake takes an awful lot of force to lock up on dry pavement.
> In the rain, it gets easier.
>
> Opinions? Advice?

all MSF courses are rain-or-shine. if you ride, you will eventually
ride in the rain. they talked about the traction "pie" someone got
greedy and took too big of a slice.

Posted by warren weber on September 22, 2008, 4:54 pm



> Just looking for any feedback here ...
>
> I was going to loan my Shadow 600 to a friend who was taking the MIFF
> course with her hubby about a week ago. My expectation was that both
> would enjoy it and pass it.
>
> The weekend had pouring rain, nonstop.
>
> During the Saturday riding session, the hubby fell twice in
> braking-related incidents, and his knee became very swollen. He medical'd
> out of the course. However, my friend was still on for the Sunday riding
> session without her hubby.
>
> During the exam for maximum performance braking, she dropped the bike
> (front wheel lockup in the rain). So, she failed the course and got
> banged up a bit.
>
> When I visited them this weekend, they were somewhat demoralized but not
> ready to sell their helmets quite yet.
>
> I told them that it was patently unfair to hold an MSF basic rider course
> in the rain. The issue in my mind is that for most motorcycles, the front
> brake takes an awful lot of force to lock up on dry pavement. In the
> rain, it gets easier.
>
> Opinions? Advice?
I road for 20 years before Colorado required a "M" on the drivers license.
When that came to be. In about 1974 I called MVD and said how can I come for
the test on my bike legally with out the M on my license. Reply, I will not
look out window to see how you got here. (Small town) The test was a written
test and the driving test was ...( Accelerate towards me and lock up the
brakes so you don't hit me) Gee, I passed.
As for rain, I rode in rain storms that were so heavy I could barley see to
road in front of the bike. Never had any problems. Or just dumb luck. That
was on Harleys. Then I went to all Japanese brands up to now.



Posted by lugnut on September 22, 2008, 7:24 pm



>
>> Just looking for any feedback here ...
>>
>> I was going to loan my Shadow 600 to a friend who was taking the MIFF
>> course with her hubby about a week ago. My expectation was that both
>> would enjoy it and pass it.
>>
>> The weekend had pouring rain, nonstop.
>>
>> During the Saturday riding session, the hubby fell twice in
>> braking-related incidents, and his knee became very swollen. He medical'd
>> out of the course. However, my friend was still on for the Sunday riding
>> session without her hubby.
>>
>> During the exam for maximum performance braking, she dropped the bike
>> (front wheel lockup in the rain). So, she failed the course and got
>> banged up a bit.
>>
>> When I visited them this weekend, they were somewhat demoralized but not
>> ready to sell their helmets quite yet.
>>
>> I told them that it was patently unfair to hold an MSF basic rider course
>> in the rain. The issue in my mind is that for most motorcycles, the front
>> brake takes an awful lot of force to lock up on dry pavement. In the
>> rain, it gets easier.
>>
>> Opinions? Advice?
>I road for 20 years before Colorado required a "M" on the drivers license.
>When that came to be. In about 1974 I called MVD and said how can I come for
>the test on my bike legally with out the M on my license. Reply, I will not
>look out window to see how you got here. (Small town) The test was a written
>test and the driving test was ...( Accelerate towards me and lock up the
>brakes so you don't hit me) Gee, I passed.
>As for rain, I rode in rain storms that were so heavy I could barley see to
>road in front of the bike. Never had any problems. Or just dumb luck. That
>was on Harleys. Then I went to all Japanese brands up to now.
>


I went through a similar test here in GA in 1970. I arrived on my Triumph Bonny
with it's shorty semi-mufflers. The trooper told me to stay behind the car
where he was giving a driving test with the noisy SOB. If I could complete the
road trip and do a couple of turns in the parking lot I would be OK. Aced the
test!! Have only fallen once since on the wet grass in my own backyard. I was
lucky my wife didn't see it. I would still be trying to explain.

Lugnut

Posted by Tuesday Blimpie on September 22, 2008, 5:57 pm


> Just looking for any feedback here ...
>
> I was going to loan my Shadow 600 to a friend who was taking the MSF cour=
se
> with her hubby about a week ago. =A0My expectation was that both would en=
joy
> it and pass it.
>
> The weekend had pouring rain, nonstop.
>
> During the Saturday riding session, the hubby fell twice in braking-relat=
ed
> incidents, and his knee became very swollen. =A0He medical'd out of the
> course. =A0However, my friend was still on for the Sunday riding session
> without her hubby.
>
> During the exam for maximum performance braking, she dropped the bike (fr=
ont
> wheel lockup in the rain). =A0So, she failed the course and got banged up=
a
> bit.
>
> When I visited them this weekend, they were somewhat demoralized but not
> ready to sell their helmets quite yet.
>
> I told them that it was patently unfair to hold an MSF basic rider course=
in
> the rain. =A0The issue in my mind is that for most motorcycles, the front
> brake takes an awful lot of force to lock up on dry pavement. =A0In the r=
ain,
> it gets easier.
>
> Opinions? =A0Advice?

I would think under rain conditions that GOOD Rider Coaches in a Basic
Rider Course would increase their emphasis on the concept of a smooth,
progressive, squeeze of the front brake lever and a light, steady,
touch of the rear brake pedal. I would think that they would caution
the students with extreme seriousness NOT to grab the front brake
lever. And I think they would start braking exercises in the rain
with LONGER stopping distances than required in the dry, giving
students the chance to GRADUALLY approach their own (and potentially,
their bikes') braking limits. Finally, I think they would watch
their students and work strenuously one-on-one with the ones who were
having obvious difficulties early on, so that they could defuse any
potential bad braking habits BEFORE a fall.

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