MSF Course Pain and Suffering

Many cycles -even very small ones- have put serious dents in cars.

As for the *really* serious ones...

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3D325401

Posted by David T. Ashley on September 24, 2008, 6:52 pm

>> This may be one of the few cycles that could put a dent in a car.

>Many cycles -even very small ones- have put serious dents in cars.

>As for the *really* serious ones...

>http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325401

Just goes to show you, when you don't have the "m", you can compensate with
the "v**2".

Wow.

Posted by Marc Gerges on September 22, 2008, 2:04 am

> I told them that it was patently unfair to hold an MSF basic rider course in

> the rain. The issue in my mind is that for most motorcycles, the front

> brake takes an awful lot of force to lock up on dry pavement. In the rain,

> it gets easier.

> Opinions? Advice?

Would they accept a motorcycle license that prohibits riding in the
rain? If not, they should learn it, too.

The physics is exactly the same when it rains, it's just the limits that
are lower.

cu
.\arc

Posted by David T. Ashley on September 22, 2008, 11:56 am

>> I told them that it was patently unfair to hold an MSF basic rider course

>> in

>> the rain. The issue in my mind is that for most motorcycles, the front

>> brake takes an awful lot of force to lock up on dry pavement. In the

>> rain,

>> it gets easier.

>> Opinions? Advice?

> Would they accept a motorcycle license that prohibits riding in the

> rain? If not, they should learn it, too.

> The physics is exactly the same when it rains, it's just the limits that

> are lower.

I don't think so. The physics are similar, but not the same.

There is hydroplaning.

I also get the impression -- perhaps erroneous -- that the gap between
static and kinetic friction is larger when the road is wet. Once you get
the wheel a'sliding (rather than a'rolling), it doesn't always seem that
easy to get it a'rolling again.

Posted by Marc Gerges on September 22, 2008, 1:31 pm

>> The physics is exactly the same when it rains, it's just the limits that

>> are lower.

> I don't think so. The physics are similar, but not the same.

I spent an entire day in a safety course in pouring rain couple weeks
ago - part of the obvious discussion was that rain or a wet track is not
really a problem - except in your head. The instructor demo'ed/showed
off by scraping the pegs.

And we went off happily, doing double lane changes, emergency braking
and other fun stuff. I guess it was less fun for the owners of the
garage queens... ;-)

> There is hydroplaning.

I wouldn't expect it on any bike with reasonable tires. At least I can
confirm highway riding at 110 km/h through puddles, there's none. Look
at the rounded shape of the front tire, how small the contact area
really is.

> I also get the impression -- perhaps erroneous -- that the gap between

> static and kinetic friction is larger when the road is wet. Once you get

> the wheel a'sliding (rather than a'rolling), it doesn't always seem that

> easy to get it a'rolling again.

The 'only' bit I have lots of respect for is the white lines - while
reasonably ok in dry weather, they tend to be very slippery in the wet.
That, and the first half hour of rain after a long period of good
weather - the time till the rain has washed away the dirt and residue
from the road.

cu
.\arc

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