Posted by The Older Gentleman on September 27, 2008, 8:40 am
> None of them successful. It seems that everybody was trying to fight
> the fork dive at one time, but for example Japs were men enough to admit
> that their ideas were all stupid and they got rid of them long time ago.
I think you ought to google for "Difazio" and "Hossack". I agree the
Japanese anti-dive systems were mostly a waste of time, but there's more
to front end behaviour than those.
>
> > The GP teams use hydraulic systems to counter the dive for exactly
> > the same reason. If you can counteract dive you end up with a more stable
> > machine that doesn't have radical changes in geometry during breaking.
>
> That was a different thinking, and it didn't work either.
>
> > And, by the way, in the original criticism of ABS the situation described
> > was caused by the lack of traction not the ABS.
>
> Nonsense. Get out of perfect roads and try it yourself. You can still
> slow down fairly effectively even if your front is working heavily,
> chattering over bumps. Sure, you lose contact with the road at times,
> but most of the time you have some traction, so you can slow down if you
> are gentle with the brake.
I managed to confuse the ABS on a Pan-European 1100 to the extent that
it switched off, braking hard on the yellow count-down stripes
approaching a roundabout.
The road paint is less grippy than tarmac so the ABS was having to grip,
relax, grip, relax, very fast, and in the end it switched off :-)
--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Yamaha XT600E Honda CB400F & SH50
GHPOTHUF#1 chateaudotmurrayatidnetdotcom
Nothing is more dangerous than an ignoramus with a workshop
manual, a 'can-do' attitude and a cheap set of tools
Posted by Andrzej Rosa on September 27, 2008, 9:35 am
Dnia 2008-09-27 The Older Gentleman napisał(a):
>> None of them successful. It seems that everybody was trying to fight
>> the fork dive at one time, but for example Japs were men enough to admit
>> that their ideas were all stupid and they got rid of them long time ago.
> I think you ought to google for "Difazio" and "Hossack".
I read this http://www.tonyfoale.com/Articles/Steer/STEER.htm long time
ago. It seems that BMW is rediscovering Hossack with their duolever
system recently.
> I agree the
> Japanese anti-dive systems were mostly a waste of time, but there's more
> to front end behaviour than those.
What Japs tried to achieve at least made sense to me. They recognized
that in order to battle fork dive "something" must actively react to
braking. It didn't work, but I count it as a good effort.
>> Nonsense. Get out of perfect roads and try it yourself. You can still
>> slow down fairly effectively even if your front is working heavily,
>> chattering over bumps. Sure, you lose contact with the road at times,
>> but most of the time you have some traction, so you can slow down if you
>> are gentle with the brake.
> I managed to confuse the ABS on a Pan-European 1100 to the extent that
> it switched off, braking hard on the yellow count-down stripes
> approaching a roundabout.
> The road paint is less grippy than tarmac so the ABS was having to grip,
> relax, grip, relax, very fast, and in the end it switched off :-)
Nice one.
--
Andrzej Rosa
Posted by The Older Gentleman on September 27, 2008, 9:55 am
> I read this http://www.tonyfoale.com/Articles/Steer/STEER.htm long time
> ago. It seems that BMW is rediscovering Hossack with their duolever
> system recently.
Yes: it's on some of the big K fours. I forget which ones.
>
> > I agree the
> > Japanese anti-dive systems were mostly a waste of time, but there's more
> > to front end behaviour than those.
>
> What Japs tried to achieve at least made sense to me. They recognized
> that in order to battle fork dive "something" must actively react to
> braking. It didn't work, but I count it as a good effort.
That's a fair comment. I think Kawasaki got closest to it with the
electric ESCS system fitted to the GPX750.
That worked surprisingly well, but like all the hydraulic systems, the
fork oil degraded fast.
--
BMW K1100LT Ducati 750SS Yamaha XT600E Honda CB400F & SH50
GHPOTHUF#1 chateaudotmurrayatidnetdotcom
Nothing is more dangerous than an ignoramus with a workshop
manual, a 'can-do' attitude and a cheap set of tools
Posted by Marc Gerges on September 27, 2008, 10:11 am
>
> Nonsense. Get out of perfect roads and try it yourself. You can still
> slow down fairly effectively even if your front is working heavily,
> chattering over bumps. Sure, you lose contact with the road at times,
> but most of the time you have some traction, so you can slow down if you
> are gentle with the brake.
If your plan is to be gentle with the brake, there's no need for the
ABS.
cu
.\arc
Posted by Andrzej Rosa on September 27, 2008, 2:46 pm
Dnia 2008-09-27 Marc Gerges napisał(a):
>>
>> Nonsense. Get out of perfect roads and try it yourself. You can still
>> slow down fairly effectively even if your front is working heavily,
>> chattering over bumps. Sure, you lose contact with the road at times,
>> but most of the time you have some traction, so you can slow down if you
>> are gentle with the brake.
> If your plan is to be gentle with the brake, there's no need for the
> ABS.
You slow down as fast as you can, but still much faster than ABS is
able, because this thing will shut down your brakes completely.
--
Andrzej Rosa
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> the fork dive at one time, but for example Japs were men enough to admit
> that their ideas were all stupid and they got rid of them long time ago.