Posted by Robert Bolton on June 27, 2009, 2:33 pm
wrote:
>Robert Bolton wrote:
>> I use 20-50 oil. The owners manual
>> speaks of using 50w when ambient permit it, but recommends 20-50
>> when starting below 60 F ambient. I start often in the 40s F.
>Two thoughts, only partially related:
>1) Consider using synthetic oil. It is MUCH less likely to break down due
>to high temps. than conventional oil
>AND
>2) Your battery situation might be improved somewhat by keeping the engine
>revs. up a bit more (shifting later) and by tweaking the idle speed up a
>bit...........but then it probably wouldn't "sound" like a Harley !!!
My idle's just under 1200, which is actually above spec. My bike's a
'97 with an AGM type battery, so the charging system wasn't designed
for the specific battery as I understand it. Every now and then I'll
notice the voltage is lower than normal so I slap a battery tender
plus on it over night. I checked out the charging system last summer,
and it was putting out well within spec, so I replaced the battery
night before last. We'll see if a newer battery doesn't help me out.
I'm already using Harley's synth version of their 20-50, but only
because I haven't gotten around to finding one with a higher temp
rating. I discovered one in the past that withstood higher temps but
I don't remember which one it was. I'll have to get back to that
pretty quick, as an oil change is coming up.
Appreciate the input,
Robert
Posted by Road Glidin' Don on June 27, 2009, 11:38 am
<snipped for brevity>
Hi Robert. Lots of stuff that could be commented on there...
To begin with, you might have been too conservative when it came to
shutting down the engine periodically. It doesn't take that much
juice to restart it once in awhile. If you want to help replenish the
battery, you can use the throttle to keep the revs up to about 2,500
or 3,000 for awhile.
In addition, when in a traffic jam, you can often paddle-foot the bike
a bit, if the line just moves a short distance - alternating that
method with restarts to move under power. Helps if the lineup is not
leading uphill, of course. Works great if it's downhill.
And the oil pressure thing... The gauge is misleading because it's a
reflection of how thin the oil is, not how much oil is actually
flowing through the engine. When really hot, the oil is thin like
water, so there's no pressure; even though the oil is flowing
normally. Notice that, when starting the bike in cold weather, how
high the pressure is? Like 40 psi? Same thing in the other
direction.
I agree with the comment on using synthetic because it performs better
in extreme heat situations. I've used Mobil 1 15w-50 the entire life
of my Road Glide and the motor's still fine after over 125,000 miles.
As Snag says, I'd also recommend being a little more outlaw when it
comes to taking the shoulder in the situation you described and use
the excuse he suggested if you get stopped.
And forget the oil cooler and engine fan stuff. Not needed -
especially in Alaska.
Posted by Robert Bolton on June 27, 2009, 3:06 pm
On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 08:38:57 -0700 (PDT), "Road Glidin' Don"
><snipped for brevity>
>Hi Robert. Lots of stuff that could be commented on there...
>To begin with, you might have been too conservative when it came to
>shutting down the engine periodically. It doesn't take that much
>juice to restart it once in awhile. If you want to help replenish the
>battery, you can use the throttle to keep the revs up to about 2,500
>or 3,000 for awhile.
I'm hoping a new battery will take care of it. The old one was
stamped 04/2003, but was an AGM type that is supposed to have a long
life. It had been gassing a little around the negative post, which
always had me wondering about a bad connection due to corrosion. When
I replaced it the other night I could see gassing stains around the
entire battery seal, so perhaps it was on its last legs. I've started
the bike twice now with the new battery without a hitch, but the true
test will be when I re-start hot a few times. It used to have trouble
every now and then getting past the first compression stroke after
gassing up, so we'll see.
Old battery - Interstate YIX30L - 380 cca, 30 ah
New batt - Interstate FAYIX30L (factory activated)
380 cca, 30 ah.
I think the battery Harley sells is an Exide, rate 28 ah and 335 cca,
as dimensions are identical. Interstates are re-stamped YUASA, which
I went with due to the higher capabilities. I've read though that
batteries with higher a cca might not be as structurally vibration
proof as one with a lower cca, as the plates are more delicate. We'll
see.
....
>And the oil pressure thing... The gauge is misleading because it's a
>reflection of how thin the oil is, not how much oil is actually
>flowing through the engine. When really hot, the oil is thin like
>water, so there's no pressure; even though the oil is flowing
>normally. Notice that, when starting the bike in cold weather, how
>high the pressure is? Like 40 psi? Same thing in the other
>direction.
Well you'll need a tiny bit of pressure to lift the oil to the top of
the cylinder. Yes, mine runs 40 psi cold at speed, 20 psi warm, 10 to
15 psi at idle normally. Seems to me Harley says 5psi is their start
to worry point, but I don't remember at what rpm. You know I often
tell myself not to worry as I don't exactly live in Phoenix, but I
really wonder how the bikes standup over time in those areas. That
cross-over pipe can start cooking you leg if you sit around too long,
even up here.
>I agree with the comment on using synthetic because it performs better
>in extreme heat situations. I've used Mobil 1 15w-50 the entire life
>of my Road Glide and the motor's still fine after over 125,000 miles.
>As Snag says, I'd also recommend being a little more outlaw when it
>comes to taking the shoulder in the situation you described and use
>the excuse he suggested if you get stopped.
>And forget the oil cooler and engine fan stuff. Not needed -
>especially in Alaska.
You wouldn't think so, especially with a 1340, but I have a hard time
ignoring a gauge reading near zero.
Appreciate your input Don. Hey, I have an OT question for you. Which
name do you prefer for the Mrs.? I noticed what I presume is a First
Nations name on your web pages so thought I'd ask.
Robert
Posted by Vito on June 27, 2009, 4:33 pm
<snipped for brevity>
And the oil pressure thing... The gauge is misleading because it's a
reflection of how thin the oil is, not how much oil is actually
flowing through the engine. When really hot, the oil is thin like
water, so there's no pressure; even though the oil is flowing
normally. Notice that, when starting the bike in cold weather, how
high the pressure is? Like 40 psi? Same thing in the other
direction.
==========================================
Don's right. The reason HD oil pressure is less than folks are used to is
that the motor uses roller and ball bearings instead of "plain" bearings
common in cars and other bikes. The latter require high oil pressure because
the oil molicules keep the bearing races apart. Roller and ball bearings
just need flow and nearly no pressure is needed to provide it.
Posted by saddlebag on June 27, 2009, 6:02 pm
> The Mrs had a little trouble on our trip last summer in that her thigh
> bone would bang against the pillion hand grips when we hit bumps, to
> the point it began to be painful. It was only one thigh bone
> (femur?), the one that is closer to the skin surface due to an auto
> accident.
> I bought a set of elevated passenger floorboard posts this spring from
> the local HD dealer for $137. I discovered later in the summer that
> Anchorage Harley charges above list ($124)while Fairbanks Harley
> sticks to list. Anyway, I took the wife on her first ride of the
> season after installation to check them out. The posts worked great,
> so she is now pain free.
> The ride was our usual 30 miles to Girdwood and 30 miles back. Traffic
> was a little slow, but not too bad. Traffic came to a standstill on
> the way home though, with maybe a half mile long line of cars winding
> along the shore line till it disappeared around the mountain bend. We
> sat there for awhile. I hadn't charged the battery in recently, which
> is something I seem to have to do to ward off low voltage, so I was
> hesitant to shut/start the engine down as traffic moved a few car
> lengths every 10 minutes. I was also leery of sitting at a stop for
> long periods on an air-cooled bike. After perhaps 20 minutes, I
> pulled over to the shoulder, rode up the line about 50 yards, crossed
> the street, parked in a pull-off, and shut the engine down.
> Traffic hardly moved during the next 15 minutes we sat there, so I
> decided to head back to Girdwood and try again later. We stopped at
> The Chair 5, which was so packed the wife asked a guy if he'd share
> his table, which he did. It turned out he was our ex-Senator Ted
> Stevens' next door neighbor. We had an appetizer, chatted with the
> fellow for about an hour, then tried the road for home once again.
> Nothing had changed, so this time I just sat in line, wondering how
> hot my engine was getting. There was a fair amount of wind, but as I
> sat in line idling, the oil pressure gradually dropped. The wife
> occasionally urged me to ride the shoulder to the head of the line,
> but I was hesitant, in part because I figured there would be cops at
> the head of the line who might not like it. I changed my mind when my
> oil pressure was down to very nearly zero. Off I went riding the
> shoulder. All went well till I came to a motorhome. As I approached,
> a woman jumped out and began to walk/jog alongside the motorhome,
> thereby partially blocking the shoulder. I don't know what she was up
> to, but I slowed to a crawl, waiting for her to do whatever it was she
> was going to do. I happened to glance down at my gauges though, saw
> my red oil light was on, and so went ahead and proceeded to pass. She
> gave me enough room to get by, so all went well.
> Traffic was just starting to move then, so there were wide open spaces
> in front of the motorhome, permitting me to get back onto the road,
> some revs, get some oil pressure, and cool things off.
> All parties were gone when I reached the crash sight, though I had a
> chance to see some flashing red lights as I approached. I noticed a
> motorcycle skid mark, with some auto skid marks very near it. The
> story that emerged as few weeks later was that two motorcycles were
> passing a string of cars when oncoming traffic forced them to get back
> into their lane. The motorcycle in front braked hard, the one in the
> rear over braked and went down, sliding into the front bike, which
> caused the front bike's passenger (wife) to get tossed off, where she
> was struck by a semi. She wasn't dead, but seriously injured.
> Back home, I searched the net to learn about oil coolers and found the
> usual assortment of conflicting opinions about whether or not the
> basic oil coolers do any good. My air-cooled Honda Nighthawk 750 had
> an oil cooler. It was a piece of tubing with relatively Spartan
> cooling fins on it.
> Any of the Harley crowd out there know anything about oil coolers, or
> other ways to keep engine temp down during very long standstill times?
a) Hit the kill switch.
b) Buy a new one with heat activated rear cylinder cutoff.
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>> I use 20-50 oil. The owners manual
>> speaks of using 50w when ambient permit it, but recommends 20-50
>> when starting below 60 F ambient. I start often in the 40s F.
>Two thoughts, only partially related:
>1) Consider using synthetic oil. It is MUCH less likely to break down due
>to high temps. than conventional oil
>AND
>2) Your battery situation might be improved somewhat by keeping the engine
>revs. up a bit more (shifting later) and by tweaking the idle speed up a
>bit...........but then it probably wouldn't "sound" like a Harley !!!