Posted by douglas on June 3, 2008, 2:19 am
Hi!
My name's Doug; I'm 17, and I'm looking to get a motorcycle --mostly
window-shopping until I take the MSF Basic Rider course--; I'm around
6' 1" and 200lbs, and I've ridden a 50cc motorscooter before --my Dad
said to learn on that to get comfortable w/ traffic and a powered
vehicle, then he'd let me trade up--. I have my eye on a 2008 Yamaha V
Star 250 or a 2007/8 Honda Rebel CMX250C. Do you think either of those
would be a good trainer bike; which one do you prefer over the other?
And, why is the SMG pattern "1-N-2-3-4-5"? Couldn't you accidently
shift into neutral? And, do you shift by accelerating to the r/min of
the next gear, blip the throttle, quickly disengage the clutch, click
the shift lever into next gear, and accelerate?
Should you stop at an intersection by using the clutch to slow down
until you hit 1st, and then use the rear brake to slow to a halt?
What would happen if you replaced the clutch w/ a lockup torque
converter --redoing the levers so that pressing the clutch lever would
lock the torque converter--? Would it be smoother shifting, or just
wasting power?
They make automatic trannies for scooters, why not motorcycles? What
about ABS?
Thanks!!!!
Posted by Timberwoof on June 3, 2008, 3:05 am
In article
> Hi!
>
> My name's Doug; I'm 17, and I'm looking to get a motorcycle --mostly
> window-shopping until I take the MSF Basic Rider course--; I'm around
> 6' 1" and 200lbs, and I've ridden a 50cc motorscooter before --my Dad
> said to learn on that to get comfortable w/ traffic and a powered
> vehicle, then he'd let me trade up--. I have my eye on a 2008 Yamaha V
> Star 250 or a 2007/8 Honda Rebel CMX250C. Do you think either of those
> would be a good trainer bike; which one do you prefer over the other?
I recommend a bike with a more upright seating position. You're tall;
you can handle a taller bike.
> And, why is the SMG pattern "1-N-2-3-4-5"? Couldn't you accidently
> shift into neutral?
The N is actually halfway between 1 and 2, and transmissions are
generally set up to take you directly from 1 to 2 or back unless you
give it a very light touch.
> And, do you shift by accelerating to the r/min of
> the next gear, blip the throttle, quickly disengage the clutch, click
> the shift lever into next gear, and accelerate?
Not unless I'm trying to get the hell out of Dodge, no. No need to blip
the throttle on the way up because in the higher gear, the engine will
be turning at a lower speed. You have the sequence of events a little
off. Do it this way:
* Open throttle as required until you reach the shift point.
* Squeeze clutch and release throttle.
* Click shifter up one gear.
* Release clutch lever.
* Open throttle again.
> Should you stop at an intersection by using the clutch to slow down
> until you hit 1st, and then use the rear brake to slow to a halt?
As my accountant says, "It depends."
Generally you should decelerate using the front brake: That's where most
of your stopping power is.
Don't worry about all those fiddly details. The MSF class will teach you
the basics and what you need to practice.
> What would happen if you replaced the clutch w/ a lockup torque
> converter --redoing the levers so that pressing the clutch lever would
> lock the torque converter--? Would it be smoother shifting, or just
> wasting power?
You'd have a heavier, more complicated motorcycle, and the speed of the
engine would not have a linear relationship to your speed on the road.
> They make automatic trannies for scooters, why not motorcycles?
Manual transmissions work well enough. If you can't work a manual
transmission, then you should not be riding a motorcycle. Also, IMHO, a
manual transmission lets you use the engine as a sensory input for road
speed.
> What
> about ABS?
If your motorcycle has ABS, then practice using it once or twice in a
dirt road. Jam on those brakes, front and back, and get ready to put
your feet down, for that beast will stop!
--
Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com>
faq: http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle/faq.shtml
Posted by douglas on June 3, 2008, 10:59 am
wrote:
> In article
> > Hi!
> > My name's Doug; I'm 17, and I'm looking to get a motorcycle --mostly
> > window-shopping until I take the MSF Basic Rider course--; I'm around
> > 6' 1" and 200lbs, and I've ridden a 50cc motorscooter before --my Dad
> > said to learn on that to get comfortable w/ traffic and a powered
> > vehicle, then he'd let me trade up--. I have my eye on a 2008 Yamaha V
> > Star 250 or a 2007/8 Honda Rebel CMX250C. Do you think either of those
> > would be a good trainer bike; which one do you prefer over the other?
> I recommend a bike with a more upright seating position. You're tall;
> you can handle a taller bike.
> > And, why is the SMG pattern "1-N-2-3-4-5"? Couldn't you accidently
> > shift into neutral?
> The N is actually halfway between 1 and 2, and transmissions are
> generally set up to take you directly from 1 to 2 or back unless you
> give it a very light touch.
> > And, do you shift by accelerating to the r/min of
> > the next gear, blip the throttle, quickly disengage the clutch, click
> > the shift lever into next gear, and accelerate?
> Not unless I'm trying to get the hell out of Dodge, no. No need to blip
> the throttle on the way up because in the higher gear, the engine will
> be turning at a lower speed. You have the sequence of events a little
> off. Do it this way:
> * Open throttle as required until you reach the shift point.
> * Squeeze clutch and release throttle.
> * Click shifter up one gear.
> * Release clutch lever.
> * Open throttle again.
> > Should you stop at an intersection by using the clutch to slow down
> > until you hit 1st, and then use the rear brake to slow to a halt?
> As my accountant says, "It depends."
> Generally you should decelerate using the front brake: That's where most
> of your stopping power is.
> Don't worry about all those fiddly details. The MSF class will teach you
> the basics and what you need to practice.
> > What would happen if you replaced the clutch w/ a lockup torque
> > converter --redoing the levers so that pressing the clutch lever would
> > lock the torque converter--? Would it be smoother shifting, or just
> > wasting power?
> You'd have a heavier, more complicated motorcycle, and the speed of the
> engine would not have a linear relationship to your speed on the road.
> > They make automatic trannies for scooters, why not motorcycles?
> Manual transmissions work well enough. If you can't work a manual
> transmission, then you should not be riding a motorcycle. Also, IMHO, a
> manual transmission lets you use the engine as a sensory input for road
> speed.
> > What
> > about ABS?
> If your motorcycle has ABS, then practice using it once or twice in a
> dirt road. Jam on those brakes, front and back, and get ready to put
> your feet down, for that beast will stop!
> --
> Timberwoof <me at timberwoof dot com>
> faq: http://www.timberwoof.com/motorcycle/faq.shtml
My Dad told me that top gear of most motorcycles isn't an overdrive.
Why not? Don't manufacturers want you to get more mpg on the freeway?
Posted by Outback Jon on June 3, 2008, 11:50 am
douglas wrote:
> My Dad told me that top gear of most motorcycles isn't an overdrive.
> Why not? Don't manufacturers want you to get more mpg on the freeway?
Every bike I've owned has had an overdrive for the top gear.
--
"Outback" Jon - KC2BNE
outback_jon@ver.no.sp.am.izon.net
AMD Opteron 165 (@2.5) and 6.1 GHz of other AMD power...
http://folding.stanford.edu - got folding? Team 53560
2006 ZG1000A Concours "Blueline" COG# 7385 CDA# 0157
Posted by Mark Olson on June 3, 2008, 12:29 pm
Outback Jon wrote:
> douglas wrote:
>
>> My Dad told me that top gear of most motorcycles isn't an overdrive.
>> Why not? Don't manufacturers want you to get more mpg on the freeway?
> Every bike I've owned has had an overdrive for the top gear.
Argh! What's your definition of an overdrive? And if you think
there is one that applies to motorcycles, why do you think it
matters one iota?
My new bike has LOTS of gears between the engine and the rear
wheel[1], some of the ratios in high gear are less than 1:1 and
some are more, but the crankshaft is always turning faster than
the pinion gear in the rear drive. So even though the 5th gear
drive gear is 28T and driven gear is 26T, which in some people's
eyes makes 5th an overdrive, there is still the primary ratio,
the front bevel drive ("middle gear") ratio, and the transmission
output shaft to middle gear drive ratio to figure in.
In other words, it's not like a rear drive car with a transmission
where the input shaft and output shaft could be directly coupled
together in high gear, where having an overdrive meant something
mechanically different than the norm. In a bike you are always
transmitting power from a transmission input shaft to an output
shaft via a pair of gears, there is no possibility of a
direct-coupled 1:1, so even if top gear was a 1:1 ratio it would
still be going through a pair of gears.
[1] Driven/Drive
Primary 75/48
Transmission Output Shaft to Middle Gear 35/37
Middle Gear 21/27 (front bevel box)
Final Drive 33/9 (rear "differential")
1st 43/17
2nd 39/22
3rd 31/23
4th 28/26
5th 26/28
--
'07 FJR13AW '99 EX250-F13
OMF #7
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>
> My name's Doug; I'm 17, and I'm looking to get a motorcycle --mostly
> window-shopping until I take the MSF Basic Rider course--; I'm around
> 6' 1" and 200lbs, and I've ridden a 50cc motorscooter before --my Dad
> said to learn on that to get comfortable w/ traffic and a powered
> vehicle, then he'd let me trade up--. I have my eye on a 2008 Yamaha V
> Star 250 or a 2007/8 Honda Rebel CMX250C. Do you think either of those
> would be a good trainer bike; which one do you prefer over the other?