Re: As a rider she deserves some love

 wrote:


As I understand it, bystanders were able to stop him as
he attempted to reload.

 
Yes indeed.

 | Just to let you know, the extended clip he used, was part of that
| assault weapons ban that ended in 2004.
|
Yes. Glock makes a full auto pistol for various gummymints.  The big mag is
for that version.

 | That part I'm aware of.  I have a G22 sitting at home with a few 15-round
| magazines.
|
| I paid dearly for those mags during the ban.
|
Yes, but you were able to get them easily.  That's what makes bans such a
joke.

 wrote:


Every time I read another article, Loughner's magazine gets *bigger*.

Now they're saying he had a 33-round magazine...

Tucson suspect's troubles didn't keep him from gun

By MICHAEL R. BLOOD
Associated Press


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TUCSON, Ariz. (AP) -- Jared Loughner had trouble with the law, was
rejected by the Army after flunking a drug test and was considered so
mentally unstable that he was banned from his college campus, where
officials considered him a threat to other students and faculty.

But the 22-year-old had no trouble buying the Glock semiautomatic
pistol that authorities say he used in the Tucson rampage Saturday
that left six dead and 14 injured, including Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.

Loughner's personal history did not disqualify him under federal
rules, and Arizona doesn't regulate gun sales. His criminal charges
were ultimately dismissed, the Army information was private and Pima
Community College isn't saying whether it shared its concerns about
Loughner with anyone besides his parents.

Loughner cleared a federal background check and bought the pistol at a
big-box sports store near his home on Nov. 30 - two months after he
was suspended by the college. He customized the weapon with an
extended ammunition clip that would have been illegal six years
earlier.

Gun-control advocates say the shooting shows that Arizona, home of
some of the nation's most permissive gun laws, must review its laws to
make sure firearms are not falling into the wrong hands. Gun-rights
proponents disagree and say more regulation would not have stopped the
tragedy.

Arizona eased gun restrictions last year when it passed a law allowing
residents 21 and older to conceal and carry a weapon without a permit,
which allowed Loughner to furtively - and legally - carry his pistol
to the mall where he is accused of opening fire.

No permits or licenses are required at the state level. Legal gun
owners can bring concealed weapons into Arizona bars and restaurants,
and state legislators are considering allowing students and teachers
to have weapons in schools.

After the shooting, Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik berated
Republican lawmakers who have sought to further ease state gun laws.

"I think we're the Tombstone of the United States of America," the
Democrat said, referring to the Wild West town populated by
gunslingers. "I have never been a proponent of letting everybody in
this state carry weapons under any circumstances that they want, and
that's almost where we are."

Charles Heller, co-founder and secretary of an Arizona group that
promotes gun rights, said more regulation is not a solution.

"Why don't we ban murder? ... Murders are illegal and people do it
anyway," he said. "There is no way to weed people out."

Outside Sportsman's Warehouse, the cavernous store where Loughner
purchased his Glock, gun owner Jason Moats said that "the bad guys can
get the guns either way." He suggested that the shootings could have
been less tragic had there been one more weapon out there, rather than
one less.

If someone at the mall was armed and had shot Loughner, ending the
attack, "the guy would be a hero," said Moats, a 25-year-old route
manager for a waste hauling company.

Eyewitnesses say Loughner was subdued after he tried to insert a
second magazine into his pistol.

Karen Seaman, chief marketing officer for Sportsman's Warehouse, said
Loughner passed a federal background check required to buy a gun.

Background checks are designed in part to weed out prospective gun
buyers who have felony criminal records, have a history of domestic
violence or are in the country illegally. None of that applied to
Loughner, although the background check form asks about drug use and
friends say he frequently used marijuana in high school.

In October 2007, Loughner was cited in Pima County for possession of
drug paraphernalia, which was dismissed after he completed a diversion
program, according to online records.

Loughner was arrested in October 2008 on a vandalism charge near
Tucson after admitting that he vandalized a road sign with a magic
marker, scrawling the letters "C" and "X" in what he said was a
reference to Christianity. The police report said Loughner admitted
other acts of vandalism in the area. The case was ultimately dismissed
after he completed a diversion program.

A military official in Washington said the Army rejected Loughner in
2008 because he failed a drug test. The official spoke on condition of
anonymity because privacy laws prevent the military from disclosing
such information about an individual's application.

Last year, Pima Community College police were called in five times to
deal with Loughner's classroom and library disruptions. He was
suspended from the college in September after campus police discovered
a YouTube video in which Loughner claimed the college was illegal
according to the U.S. Constitution. School officials told Loughner and
his parents that to return to classes he would need to undergo a
mental health exam to show he was not a danger.

A college spokesman did not respond to an e-mail asking if the college
had referred any information on Loughner to local police.

On Nov. 30, the same day he bought the Glock, Loughner posted a
YouTube video that raged against the college and police.

"If the police remove you from the educational facility for talking
then removing you from the educational facility for talking is
unconstitutional," he wrote on the video. "The situation is fraud
because the police are unconstitutional. ... Every Pima Community
College class is always a scam!"

Federal law bars gun ownership for people who've been judged
dangerously mentally ill by a court and those who have been committed
to a mental institution, thresholds that didn't disqualify Loughner.

"It's not easy to draw that line" of when a person's mental illness
should disqualify them from owning a weapon, said Michael J.
Fitzpatrick, executive director of the National Alliance on Mental
Illness, an advocacy group.

"The reality is most people with mental illness are not violent," he
said. "The issue, frankly, is getting people into treatment. It's not
about guns."

Daniel Vice, a senior attorney with the Brady Center to Prevent Gun
Violence, said something should have prevented Loughner from buying a
gun so easily.

"Here is a guy who couldn't enlist in the military and was kicked out
of school. Anyone would tell you don't give this guy a gun," Vice
said. He added that Loughner's problems might have been detected in
other states that require more restrictive state permits, including
New Jersey, Massachusetts, Hawaii and Illinois.

For example, Indiana can deny guns to anyone with documented evidence
of violent or emotionally unstable conduct, a stricter standard than
used federally. Vice said in Massachusetts, permits are issued not
through store clerks but through police, who could bring greater
scrutiny to who buys a gun.

Todd Rathner, a national board member for the National Rifle
Association, chastised those clamoring for legislative changes with
Arizona in mourning.

"It's unfortunate that some people are using this as an opportunity to
talk about their political views," Rathner said. "There are people who
haven't even had funerals yet, we have a well-liked congresswoman who
is clinging to life."

Guns are entwined with Arizona's frontier heritage. Giffords is a gun
owner, as was at least one of the six people killed, federal Judge
John Roll.

Heller's group, the Arizona Citizens Defense League, is working on a
bill that would provide firearms training for legislators and staff,
and would even assign employees firearms confiscated in crimes for
protection. "The criminal will always have a gun," Heller said.

Critics have faulted Arizona for the availability of guns. A report
released in September by Mayors Against Illegal Guns, an association
of more than 500 mayors, found that nearly half of the guns that
crossed state lines and were used in crimes in 2009 were sold in just
10 states, including Arizona.

Loughner was able to buy an extended magazine that between 1994 and
2004 was prohibited under federal law, although many were in
circulation prior to that time and remained legal. Sen. Frank
Lautenberg, D-N.J., said in a statement Monday he will introduce a
bill to ban high-capacity gun magazines.

"The only reason to have 33 bullets loaded in a handgun is to kill a
lot of people very quickly," Lautenberg said in a statement.

Rep. Peter King, a New York Republican, is taking a different
approach. He said he plans to introduce a bill that would make it
illegal to knowingly carry a gun within a thousand feet of "certain
high-profile" government officials.

.