Posted by dizzy on July 1, 2009, 8:15 pm
J. Clarke wrote:
>dizzy wrote:
>> Beav wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder why the 'Vette decided to go from a nice
>>> healthy 400bhp to a massive 200bhp (if you're lucky) usiont
>>> essentially the same engine? Maybe it was just coincidental that he
>>> Cali's didn't like snorting gasoline fumes
>>
>> Huh? I think not. Proof?
>Proof of what, that the horsepower ratings of American cars plummeted when
>the Clean Air Act went through?
Oh, he's talking about what happened 40 years ago? That was not
clear. Ancient history.
Posted by Bob Myers on July 2, 2009, 3:15 pm
dizzy wrote:
> J. Clarke wrote:
>>>> I wonder why the 'Vette decided to go from a nice
>>>> healthy 400bhp to a massive 200bhp (if you're lucky) usiont
>>>> essentially the same engine? Maybe it was just coincidental that he
>>>> Cali's didn't like snorting gasoline fumes
>>>
>>> Huh? I think not. Proof?
>>
>> Proof of what, that the horsepower ratings of American cars
>> plummeted when the Clean Air Act went through?
> Oh, he's talking about what happened 40 years ago? That was not
> clear. Ancient history.
And in a wonderful example of "correlation isn't always
causation" - assuming we're talking about the 1970 Clean
Air Act here, the drop in rated horsepower around that
same time was almost entirely coincidental. Remember, this
act had no real impact on American cars until the 1972 *model*
year - which completely by coincidence was also the year that
manufacturers in the U.S. switched from quoting SAE *gross*
horsepower measurements to the much more realistic SAE *net*
horsepower. For one example, the Chrysler 426 Hemi engine
was listed as providing "425 HP" in 1971, but dropped to a
rating of 375 (SAE net) HP in 1972, with NO changes whatsoever
to the engine. In short, the Clean Air Act had basically zero real
impact on the power of engines at the time.
Soon after this in that same decade, of course, engine horsepower
DID take a significant hit, but again it had nothing to do with the
emission controls - it was the result of the manufacturers suddenly having
to chase fuel economy rather that flat-out performance, owing
to consumer preferences changing sharply following the Arab oil
embargoes of 1973-74 and the resulting spiking of gasoline prices.
Bob M.
Posted by dizzy on July 2, 2009, 11:03 pm
Bob Myers wrote:
>dizzy wrote:
>>
>> Oh, he's talking about what happened 40 years ago? That was not
>> clear. Ancient history.
>And in a wonderful example of "correlation isn't always
>causation" - assuming we're talking about the 1970 Clean
>Air Act here, the drop in rated horsepower around that
>same time was almost entirely coincidental. Remember, this
>act had no real impact on American cars until the 1972 *model*
>year - which completely by coincidence was also the year that
>manufacturers in the U.S. switched from quoting SAE *gross*
>horsepower measurements to the much more realistic SAE *net*
>horsepower. For one example, the Chrysler 426 Hemi engine
>was listed as providing "425 HP" in 1971, but dropped to a
>rating of 375 (SAE net) HP in 1972, with NO changes whatsoever
>to the engine. In short, the Clean Air Act had basically zero real
>impact on the power of engines at the time.
Yes, I knew about the change in rating system, to "net". However, if
you are right about the Hemi, I believe it was the exception. Most of
the hot engines disappeared after 1971, and 1972 had only
lower-compression and otherwise detuned motors.
>Soon after this in that same decade, of course, engine horsepower
>DID take a significant hit, but again it had nothing to do with the
>emission controls - it was the result of the manufacturers suddenly having
>to chase fuel economy rather that flat-out performance, owing
>to consumer preferences changing sharply following the Arab oil
>embargoes of 1973-74 and the resulting spiking of gasoline prices.
Well, the detuning started before 73, for sure.
Posted by Vito on July 3, 2009, 8:27 am
> Well, the detuning started before 73, for sure.
The law became effective with the 1971 models. Chevy even brought out the
new bodied Camero as a "70 1/2" to avoid the restrictions.
An FDA chemist explained how a car that got 18 mpg one year but only 12 mpg
the next somehow made less pollution. Seems that NO2 was a major buggyboo
in LA - mixes with fog to make nitric acid - but actually comes from
compressing and heating air, hot from burning gasoline per se. Nor is it a
problem where it rains much because rain dilutes it and plants love it. But
all the smog laws started in LA so congress in its usual wisdom required car
makers to reduce compression ratios in order to make less NO2 even though
that meant the cars used a lot more gas.
None of us are as dumb as all of us!
Posted by Beav on July 3, 2009, 6:44 am
> Beav wrote:
>>I wonder why the 'Vette decided to go from a nice
>>healthy 400bhp to a massive 200bhp (if you're lucky) usiont essentially
>>the
>>same engine? Maybe it was just coincidental that he Cali's didn't like
>>snorting gasoline fumes
> Huh? I think not. Proof?
JFGI
--
Beav
VN 750
Zed 1000
OMF# 19
>> Beav wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder why the 'Vette decided to go from a nice
>>> healthy 400bhp to a massive 200bhp (if you're lucky) usiont
>>> essentially the same engine? Maybe it was just coincidental that he
>>> Cali's didn't like snorting gasoline fumes
>>
>> Huh? I think not. Proof?
>Proof of what, that the horsepower ratings of American cars plummeted when
>the Clean Air Act went through?