damnable power commander 3 vs 5 and dyno tuning and all that efi management BS

 

ugh,

so... a little bugged

the powercommander website has a PC III which is street legal and a PC
V which, i imagine, is not (??)

on forums, it looks like the PC V is a good item ... perhaps inferior
to TTS and thundermax (which doesn't have a 2010 TBW offering),
perhaps superior to the v&h fuelpak

there are recommendations to go with the PC V

i'm getting more and more confused about this EFI management stuff -
thought i had it - i'm believing i need a system that can learn *OR* i
need to buy a 'dumb' unit and buy some dyno time ($200 ish?)?
otherwise it's pointless to get a tuner and not tune properly, no?

i figured i might just call a shop that does tuning, and i did, and
they said i'd need a PC III and they'd hammer the engine until they
wrang every bit of oomf out of her

presumably if i went to another shop, they'd have their own preference
in EFI management units?

what IS the difference between the PC III and PC V?  if the whole
point is to gain performance, why not get the best? they're about the
same cost

what else should i be looking at? i know i asked not long ago, but
didn't focus on this ... Bob Mann, that beacon of the the MoCo world,
pointed out that t-max was off the table for the time being and then
he recommended the HD super tuner (SEST?) but the parts guys at my
dealer told me not to get it

at this point, i'm not even sure why i was convinced i ought to
bother ... better mileage, performance, and throttle response sounded
attractive, but for 3 bills i want more than 5 mpg and 2 ft-lbs

helpless,

-c

p.s.   3 days till pickup ... i told them anything not done would
never be done, and that anything not installed they'd have to ship to
me because i'm taking it and i'm not putting up with any more waiting

the fact that it's not rainy and not under 60 probably got me less
gentle than i had been with this dealership

 

c wrote:

Avoid the PC III EX (the street legal one).  You're not in California
so you will have no problem buying a PC III USB or a PC V USB which
are sold as "race only" or "not for street use".  Don't let that bother
you- it's only a legal thing Dynojet had to do to keep CARB/EPA off
their back.  The PC III EX is a crippled PC III that doesn't do
anything to injector pulse widths over a fairly large area of its
throttle vs. RPM map.  That's all a PC III/V does anyway, it listens
to the factory EFI controller pulses that would normally be connected
to the fuel injectors, and lengthens or shortens those pulses depending
on a stored three dimensional "map": think of a surface of +/- values,
which is the Z axis, which depends on the Y axis which is percent
throttle opening, and the X axis being RPM.

I don't have the inclination or the energy to explain further how a
PC III works (open loop, disconnect the factory O2 sensor), or how
the PC V with Autotune option (wideband O2 sensor) works.  If there
is a programmable EFI controller available from Harley I would think
hard about buying that one.

Probably you should just wait until Bob Mann replies and do whatever
he suggests.

 


seriously good to know - just what i was asking about, thank you!

That's all a PC III/V does anyway, it listens

this i understand, i've been reading up for weeks - don't feel
exasperated, i'm with ya


i won't ask you how wideband 02 systems work

i don't understand your meaning with the last bit -- you think the HD
EFI manager is worth considering? the SEST?


uhh....

 

On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 15:47:18 -0700 (PDT), c


Heh, heh, heh, while Bob's political advice is not so valuable, since
he retired from his career job he has been working for his local HD
dealership. He knew bikes before but has now become one of our
resident Harley experts. He can and does offer real world experience
and calls a spade a spade. Worth listening to.

 

don (Calgary) wrote:

Yep.  You did give good advice in your other post, which was to
have someone who knows do a custom dyno tune for your Power Commander.
Buying a Power Commander without creating a custom map tailored to
your particular bike and your specific wants and needs is a waste
of money.  In other words, you can't assume a map made for someone
else's bike will work for you and your bike, even if you have the
same configuration.  I am finding this out with my FJR and the PC III.
Next year I am going to break down and take it to a local tuner and
get a custom map made for my bike, even though everything on it is
stock.  Mainly I want to smooth out the poor part throttle response
at low load and low RPMs.  Cruising down the highway and whacking
the throttle open, the stock mapping is fine.  I really don't care
if it makes more or even a little less power.  I just want the
throttle response nice and smooth, off idle.