Posted by S'mee on July 27, 2010, 9:52 am
wrote:
> See - Krust isn't a *TOTAL* waste of space after all.
Nope you'd be wrong. It's better off if he left, even if it got
quieter. Let's put it this way, Krusty is so useless that he wouldn't
even make good compost or worm food...hell his ashes wouldn't even
make good filler of a sidewalk or septic tank!
Posted by ` on July 26, 2010, 8:28 pm
> Sulfuric acid is a dangerous compound and ought to
> be handled only when wearing protective eyewear.
> Way different than distilled water.
Where did I ever tell anybody to add pure sulfuric acid(1) to a
battery or to mix his own electrolyte?
> So please describe the procedures you use when you
> periodically added acid to your >>>motorcycle<<< batteries.
If the battery is weak and low on electrolyte, I remove it from the
motorcycle, measure the specifi gravity (if I can) and voltage, top it
up with distilled water, charge it at 10% of the ampere hour capacity
rate, let it cool off, check the resting voltage and specific gravity,
and then add sufficient pre-mixed *electrolyte* to get the level back
to the top line.
If the electrolyte is so weak that it gasses off water below the lower
level and I can't measure the specific gravity with a hydrometer, what
am I supposed to do, add distilled *water* to a fully charged battery?
I don't think so.
(1) The last place I worked had a huge tank filled with thousands of
gallons of 98% pure sulfuric acid, which doesn't look anything like
water...
Posted by Rob Kleinschmidt on July 27, 2010, 2:31 am
> > Sulfuric acid is a dangerous compound and ought to
> > be handled only when wearing protective eyewear.
> > Way different than distilled water.
> Where did I ever tell anybody to add pure sulfuric acid(1) to a
> battery or to mix his own electrolyte?
You don't think 33% acid deserves precautions ?
> > So please describe the procedures you use when you
> > periodically added acid to your >>>motorcycle<<< batteries.
> If the battery is weak and low on electrolyte, I remove it from the
> motorcycle, measure the specifi gravity (if I can) and voltage, top it
> up with distilled water, charge it at 10% of the ampere hour capacity
> rate, let it cool off, check the resting voltage and specific gravity,
> and then add sufficient pre-mixed *electrolyte* to get the level back
> to the top line.
> If the electrolyte is so weak that it gasses off water below the lower
> level and I can't measure the specific gravity with a hydrometer, what
> am I supposed to do, add distilled *water* to a fully charged battery?
The specific gravity of the electrolyte drops during
discharge and rises during charging as the sulfuric
acid transforms to PbSo4 and back to SO4. Add
water as needed and charge. If the specific gravity
is low, it's because the SO4 is still in the form of
PbSO4, not because it's gone. If the lead and SO4
are still bound up as lead sulfate, more acid won't help.
One more time, batteries loose water because it's
electrolyzed out as H and O2. As everyone has
pointed out, the only reasons to add electrolyte are
spills or stupidity. If there's no spill, the SO4 hasn't
gone anywhere except into a PbSO4 compound. While
it's in the form of lead sulfate, the lead plates aren't
available to react with whatever SO4 you might add.
You really should have gone into phrenology or
fortune telling or something similar, so you could make
up whatever bullshit you cared to with impunity.
Posted by ` on July 27, 2010, 8:51 am
wrote:
> > Where did I ever tell anybody to add pure sulfuric acid(1) to a
> > battery or to mix his own electrolyte?
> You don't think 33% acid deserves precautions ?
When I added pure sulfuric acid to water (never water to acid), I wore
a face shield, rubber gloves and apron and rubber boots.
But, where did you see me advising the OP to mix his own electrolyte?
After all, he can buy a lifetime supply of pre-mixed electrolyte from
an auto parts store for a few $$$.
> The specific gravity of the electrolyte drops during
> discharge and rises during charging as the sulfuric
> acid transforms to PbSo4 and back to SO4. Add
> water as needed and charge. If the specific gravity
> is low, it's because the SO4 is still in the form of
> PbSO4, not because it's gone. If the lead and SO4
> are still bound up as lead sulfate, more acid won't help.
No shit, sherlock?
Didn't I warn the OP that his battery was sulfated from my very first
message? Didn't I tell him to replace it with a maintenance-free
battery?
> One more time, batteries loose water because it's
> electrolyzed out as H and O2. As everyone has
> pointed out, the only reasons to add electrolyte are
> spills or stupidity. If there's no spill, the SO4 hasn't
> gone anywhere except into a PbSO4 compound. While
> it's in the form of lead sulfate, the lead plates aren't
> available to react with whatever SO4 you might add.
So. When your gas tank is low on fuel, you add distilled water?
There is still a necessary balance between the plate area and the
volume and specific gravity of electrolyte required to make the
battery work.
The emergency batteries in the power receiving and tranformer station
where I worked for the Department of Water and Power had solid plates
instead of spongy lead plates like an automotive/aircraft/motorcycle
battery has.
The battery maintenance man would come around and add water and check
the specific gravity of the electrolyte.
He pointed out that the electrolyte in the batteries was only about
1.2 instead of nearly 1.3 because the solid plates offered so much
area for the electrolyte to work on.
He said that automotive batteries needed stronger electrolyte because
of the lack of plate area.
Posted by Rob Kleinschmidt on July 27, 2010, 9:51 am
> wrote:
> > You don't think 33% acid deserves precautions ?
> When I added pure sulfuric acid to water (never water to acid), I wore
> a face shield, rubber gloves and apron and rubber boots.
> But, where did you see me advising the OP to mix his own electrolyte?
And in the few situations where it ought to be added,
battery acid deserves precautions such as eye protection,
which ought to be called out when offering a newby your
unique brand of bad advice.
> > If the specific gravity
> > is low, it's because the SO4 is still in the form of
> > PbSO4, not because it's gone. If the lead and SO4
> > are still bound up as lead sulfate, more acid won't help.
> No shit, sherlock?
> Didn't I warn the OP that his battery was sulfated from my very first
> message? Didn't I tell him to replace it with a maintenance-free
> battery?
And it was stupid advice. The correct advice was to add
distilled water and look for an overcharging problem.
Where did you see any indication of low specific gravity
or starting problems which would accompany a sulfated
battery ?
The correct advice was to add water, check voltage regulation
and fix as needed, charge the battery and then check the refilled
battery to see if it would take and hold the charge. Duhhhh !!!
> So. When your gas tank is low on fuel, you add distilled water?
Electrolyte is not "fuel" you idiot. It does not get consumed
and replenished. This is exactly where you've got your head up
your ass.
> The emergency batteries in the power receiving and tranformer station
> where I worked for the Department of Water and Power had solid plates
> instead of spongy lead plates like an automotive/aircraft/motorcycle
> battery has.
> The battery maintenance man would come around and add water and check
> the specific gravity of the electrolyte.
> He pointed out that the electrolyte in the batteries was only about
> 1.2 instead of nearly 1.3 because the solid plates offered so much
> area for the electrolyte to work on.
> He said that automotive batteries needed stronger electrolyte because
> of the lack of plate area.
A deep discharge battery needs a stronger solution
of acid than an automotive type quick discharge
battery. This is not relevant to motorcycle batteries
in any way, shape or form.
It appears that when you worked with batteries, you worked
under the direction of somebody who probably understood
how batteries worked and that your duties didn't require this same
level of understanding of battery chemistry. I'm glad to hear
this.
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