Posted by The Older Gentleman on November 17, 2009, 2:10 am
> I know it wasn't the original question but another aspect of this is
> that old bikes of many brands didn't charge much at idle, if at all, so
> if you were either repeatedly starting or running a non-magneto/battery
> ignition type at idle, say while synch'ing carbs or some other
> troubleshooting, it was pretty easy to run the battery down enough that
> after a dozen or so starts with a fair battery you might have to boost
> to start.
I've got to say I *never* had that problem, and still don't with the old
Honda I steward.
If you have something like a 12A/h battery, which is what my 400 Four
has, and the bike starts easily, you can do an awful lot of cranking on
the starter motor (which draws the most current of any electrical
component) before flattening the battery.
That said, I do remember conking out in London on an old airhead BMW
because its battery was a bit aged and I was running around town all day
on the idle jets with the lights on, and it never got a proper charge.
--
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Try Googling before asking a damn silly question.
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Posted by ian field on November 17, 2009, 9:39 am
>> TOG@Toil wrote:
>>
>> >> If you are determined to add a switch to disable the headlight you
>> >> could
>> >> ask one of our Canadian or UK friends to help you locate a headlight
>> >> switch assembly from a non-USA model. I'm betting that the headlight
>> >> wiring harness is the same but there is just a shorting bar inside the
>> >> left handlebar switch housing where the hi/lo beam selector switch is.
>>
>> > I'm pretty sure I've got a Z650 one which will do the trick. I'd
>> > willingly part with it for free as long as the postage is paid.
>>
>> Which reminds me- my '77 KZ650B1 had a headlight on/off switch, if I am
>> not mistaken '78 was the first model year to have headlight switches
>> removed on USA models. So if the OP can locate one of these at a
>> breaker's yard he might be sorted if he doesn't want to take up your
>> kind offer.
>>
>> I still say he shouldn't worry about it, I never had a problem starting
>> my '82 GPz550, just rode it regularly which kept the battery topped up.
>> If he's not riding the bike enough and doesn't use a battery tender,
>> then he might have a weak battery occasionally.
> It'd be pretty easy to cobble up a normally closed relay
> for the headlight that opens when the solenoid for
> the starter is energized.
There is a potential problem with that scheme, the battery can drop to about
half voltage under cranking load and may cause the relay to drop out when
you least want it to.
Obviously the weaker the battery the more likely the relay to drop out, and
the more you need it not to.
If I was going to modify a bike so the headlamp was only on when the engine
was running, I'd add a second low power rectifier to the alternator's AC
output, this alone might not hold the relay on while idling at a standstill
in a traffic jam, there is also the issue of excessive output with permanent
magnet alternators, so I suspect a little bit of electronics would be needed
to make it work just right.
Posted by Rob Kleinschmidt on November 17, 2009, 3:36 pm
wrote:
> >> TOG@Toil wrote:
> >> >> If you are determined to add a switch to disable the headlight you
> >> >> could
> >> >> ask one of our Canadian or UK friends to help you locate a headlight
> >> >> switch assembly from a non-USA model. I'm betting that the headlight
> >> >> wiring harness is the same but there is just a shorting bar inside the
> >> >> left handlebar switch housing where the hi/lo beam selector switch is.
> >> > I'm pretty sure I've got a Z650 one which will do the trick. I'd
> >> > willingly part with it for free as long as the postage is paid.
> >> Which reminds me- my '77 KZ650B1 had a headlight on/off switch, if I am
> >> not mistaken '78 was the first model year to have headlight switches
> >> removed on USA models. So if the OP can locate one of these at a
> >> breaker's yard he might be sorted if he doesn't want to take up your
> >> kind offer.
> >> I still say he shouldn't worry about it, I never had a problem starting
> >> my '82 GPz550, just rode it regularly which kept the battery topped up.
> >> If he's not riding the bike enough and doesn't use a battery tender,
> >> then he might have a weak battery occasionally.
> > It'd be pretty easy to cobble up a normally closed relay
> > for the headlight that opens when the solenoid for
> > the starter is energized.
> There is a potential problem with that scheme, the battery can drop to about
> half voltage under cranking load and may cause the relay to drop out when
> you least want it to.
> Obviously the weaker the battery the more likely the relay to drop out, and
> the more you need it not to.
I could be wrong, but I think a typical arrangement would have the
normally closed relay power the solenoid when it opened and
broke the connection to the headlight.
If your 12 v. battery drops more than a couple volts, it's not
likely to do anything very useful when the solenoid kicks in
anyway.
> If I was going to modify a bike so the headlamp was only on when the engine
> was running, I'd add a second low power rectifier to the alternator's AC
> output, this alone might not hold the relay on while idling at a standstill
> in a traffic jam, there is also the issue of excessive output with permanent
> magnet alternators, so I suspect a little bit of electronics would be needed
> to make it work just right.
See above.
Posted by Ron Gibson on November 23, 2009, 10:50 pm
On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:39:54 -0000, "ian field"
>There is a potential problem with that scheme, the battery can drop to about
>half voltage under cranking load and may cause the relay to drop out when
>you least want it to.
An in series toggle switch is the simplest solution. I'm sure they've
designed the circuitry in a way you wont fry anything if the light is
off. After all, bulbs do blow all on their own and a circuit designed
so alternator/generator output starts cooking the circuitry when you
blow a bulb is a completely idiotic design.
--
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Replace borg with com
"Ubuntu" - an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
Posted by ian field on November 24, 2009, 12:24 pm
> On Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:39:54 -0000, "ian field"
>>There is a potential problem with that scheme, the battery can drop to
>>about
>>half voltage under cranking load and may cause the relay to drop out when
>>you least want it to.
> An in series toggle switch is the simplest solution. I'm sure they've
> designed the circuitry in a way you wont fry anything if the light is
> off. After all, bulbs do blow all on their own and a circuit designed
> so alternator/generator output starts cooking the circuitry when you
> blow a bulb is a completely idiotic design.
They certainly exist - those little 2-stroke step-through's of the 70s &
80's used very precarious regulation systems, one I had, the battery (for
indicators, horn stoplight etc) was charged by a single diode from a tapping
on the AC lighting coil. The battery charging current was supposed to
regulate the AC lighting coil but obviously only did on alternate half
cycles - the regulation was flaky at best.
On one occasion I had the battery fuse blow, causing complete loss of
regulation on the AC lighting and instant blowing of every bulb on that
circuit - I was giving it some along an unlit country lane at the time!
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> that old bikes of many brands didn't charge much at idle, if at all, so
> if you were either repeatedly starting or running a non-magneto/battery
> ignition type at idle, say while synch'ing carbs or some other
> troubleshooting, it was pretty easy to run the battery down enough that
> after a dozen or so starts with a fair battery you might have to boost
> to start.