Do you beleive these stats on Battery Voltages? - Page 7

 

paul c wrote:

Oops, pardon me, now I`m not sure if that is a Yuasa battery.  I see
that the yx400 takes a Yuasa YT9B.  Is it from the GS-Ztong Yee
company... maybe that is some Yuasa partnership, I don`t know.  I`ve
never paid more than CAD 100 for a Yuasa vlrf, counting 12 or 13% BC
taxes and some of them were rated 12AH.

 


    I figure the only way I can tell whether a "sealed" battery is AGM,
is that AGMs don't heat up with normal charge, whereas Flooded Wet/MF/SLA
will heat up to a boil  at 12.9v.

    Most aftermarket batts are AGM hybrid types and the ones you get
when you bought your NEW M/Cycle had a WET Sealed/flooded/MF Battery...the
best, but did it ever cost.
    So far all the batteries I get are an AGM type, and they don't
desulphate much, even with Pulse Width or 16v/2amp sessions on autocharge
systems, they can do some good, but equalizing/desulfation is not possible
in the "AGM" batteries....they need some attended 25volts/2amp to even start
decrystalizing the soft sulphation.....hard sulphation is still impossible
to reverse.  

Bob


|>
|>    My GT9B-4 12v/8ah holds a 13.2 for about 10 minutes, then drops to
|>13.0v about 1/2 hour, then so far 3 days @ 12.9v sitting on the bench...
|>
|>    This is a new battery from GS-Yuasa for Can $200.00 and I can't say
|>it's too shit hot....my last battery was a Chinese one proly with sponge
|>filled acid starved cells, but it held the voltages and not the CCA/RC....
|>
|>    So I might think that voltage is not the last word here, until I put
|>a load on it. There calcs for 1000cca6rc(reserve capacity), but how do I
|>configure the 12X8–watt battery to CCA...
|>    I guess I'll keep looking for that one, but even then it's not
|>"proof in the pudding"....
|>
|>ThanX for the nfo
|>
|>Bob
|>
|>    
|>wrote:
|>
|>|>Well, look at psus for powering car equipment, its normally a nominal 13.8v.
|>|>Also of course all cells are not equal, and  some may drop a little more
|>|>than others.
|>|>
|>|>Its not just lead acid though, its all batteries and a lot of the
|>|>performance has to depend on the electrode area.
|>|>Brian

 

wrote:

|>wrote:
|>
|>>    I figure the only way I can tell whether a "sealed" battery is AGM,
|>>is that AGMs don't heat up with normal charge, whereas Flooded Wet/MF/SLA
|>>will heat up to a boil  at 12.9v.
|>>
|>>    Most aftermarket batts are AGM hybrid types and the ones you get
|>>when you bought your NEW M/Cycle had a WET Sealed/flooded/MF Battery...the
|>>best, but did it ever cost.
|>>    So far all the batteries I get are an AGM type, and they don't
|>>desulphate much, even with Pulse Width or 16v/2amp sessions on autocharge
|>>systems, they can do some good, but equalizing/desulfation is not possible
|>>in the "AGM" batteries....they need some attended 25volts/2amp to even start
|>>decrystalizing the soft sulphation.....hard sulphation is still impossible
|>>to reverse.  
|>>
|>>Bob
|>
|>
|>As someone who worked 30 years in the lead-acid battery industry, the
|>above makes no sense to me.
|>
|>12.9 volts is 2.15 volts per cell.  This is not enough voltage to even
|>make a lead-acid cell gas let alone boil.  A 12-volt battery that
|>gasses heavily or boils or heats up at this voltage is a severely
|>defective battery in need of replacement.
|>

    You're right, I have one of them slightly abused from discharges and
experiments, (6 years old) in the GS GT9B-4, this is definitely a WET
flooded, and the little flyer than came with it says it's a wet...the new
batteries just have an instruction label on the battery, like VRLA, made in
Taiwan/Japan Storage, never quick charge (like an AGM allows)..
 
|>When it comes to the cost of flooded vs AGM...  the microfibrous glass
|>mats used in AGM cells are far more expensive than the separators used
|>in flooded cells.  There is no reason for flooded to cost more than
|>AGM, everything else being equal.  In the case where the flooded is
|>"normal" price and the AGM is cheaper, you almost surely have a poor
|>quality AGM battery that has some substitute for the separation
|>material that will not give good battery performance or life.
|>

    There are a lot of buzzword marketing and quality versions of
VRLA/AGM/Polimion/SLA/Wet/Starved..... well you know, the market is
saturated with AGMs with 6 Vent Caps, which is bizarre thing right there,
but when I opened the vents, they were an Aggregate Glass Mat (AGM) acid
starved construction, very hard to revive.....almost impossible after 1
year.

|>When it comes to irreversible sulfation, you need to spend far more
|>time discovering and correcting the CAUSE than on correcting the
|>RESULT.

    **The problem is that I park my M/Cycle on the street's no
electrical outlet parking lot, and I can't leave a battery tender/overnight
charger on the Maxi-Scooter with the GSyuasa GT9B-4, so I have to upgrade
the frequency of "topping up" the battery.**

    I did buy another $200.00 Can. battery GSYuasa GT9B-4, with no
pamphlet, which I concluded is a VRLA Flooded, since it didn't fit the
gsyuasa G/YT9B-4 description of a polimion/agm Conventional or CB series
Polimion/AGM....

    Yuasa never employ the term AGM, but use Polimion to describe the
foam separators as in an AGM.....just making it all more confusing as to
whether setting the SC1200a battery charger to AGM/Gel/Marine/Regular/Etc..,
so I went with Regular, which is a lower voltage float than the AGM and
other float setting ones...

Thanx in Advance

Bob

 

wrote:

|>
|>>
|>>    **The problem is that I park my M/Cycle on the street's no
|>>electrical outlet parking lot, and I can't leave a battery tender/overnight
|>>charger on the Maxi-Scooter with the GSyuasa GT9B-4, so I have to upgrade
|>>the frequency of "topping up" the battery.**
|>
|>
|>With respect, I suggest that your real problem is that the charging
|>system in your motorcycle is defective or else is designed to charge
|>wet flooded lead-acid batteries, not sealed/VRLA/AGM types.  The
|>latter require a more sophisticated charging system and a higher
|>charging voltage.
|>

    Well the charging system of the M/Cycle Yamaha Majesty is putting
out 14 volts/27.5A at 5,000rpm from the AC magneto (moric), which is deemed
fast city driving.....
    The battery leeches 120 watts from the 2 headlights, and those are
on all the time, and everything is ECU/ECM computerized, so if there was a
real problem there would be an error code...somewhere..I suppose, then
there's the alarm system, which I rarely use because of the 8AMP limit.


|>
|>>    I did buy another $200.00 Can. battery GSYuasa GT9B-4, with no
|>>pamphlet, which I concluded is a VRLA Flooded, since it didn't fit the
|>>gsyuasa G/YT9B-4 description of a polimion/agm Conventional or CB series
|>>Polimion/AGM....
|>
|>
|>"VRLA Flooded" has no meaning to me.  VRLA are starved electrolyte
|>designs, not flooded.  There are some flooded batteries with special
|>positive pressure vent caps containing a catalyst designed to
|>recombine any gas produced (with questionable success) and maybe
|>someone calls those "VRLA Flooded," but without more explanation the
|>term "VRLA FLooded" is so contradictory as to be meaningless.
|>

    The GT9B-4 (battery type) for the Yamaha Majesty Maxi Scooter, is
used in a lot of other bikes, but mostly racing bikes/rockets.  

    The GT9B-4 VRLA battery pamphlet I got last time said:
INSTRUCTIONS FOR SEALED WET
CHARGED STORAGE BATTERY

    Then it goes on with the regular charge at 12v/.8a for
5-->10hours....nothing explicit there...but the manual has all the constant
charging emphasis of 16->17volt variable voltage (current) and the constant
charge to 15 volts "not more than 20 hours" and the 1/2 hour let sit then
check the open circuit....same stuff.

    They do emphasize that auto chargers (they may damage the battery)
and then constant amperage chargers won't work and may not charge the
battery right, whereas they tend to contradict themselves a bit to cover
their liability I guess.

    My Charger a SC1200 Regular/Deep Cycle/AGM-GEL of 2/8/12 volt
settings seems to work pretty good as a 3->4 step smart charger.
    The problem with an auto charger or passive charger, is that they
are slower than active constant chargers that TELL the battery what is
needed....the passive auto charger is more meticulous.

***So I should set the Charger for GSyuasa G/YT9B-4 AGM, since it says VRLA,
but the battery is a virtual brick for some reason, not like the aftermarket
AGM ones that have rubber and plastic vent caps anyways.***

|>
|>>    Yuasa never employ the term AGM, but use Polimion to describe the
|>>foam separators as in an AGM.....just making it all more confusing as to
|>>whether setting the SC1200a battery charger to AGM/Gel/Marine/Regular/Etc..,
|>>so I went with Regular, which is a lower voltage float than the AGM and
|>>other float setting ones...
|>
|>
|>You have me at a disadvantage here because despite working for Yuasa
|>in the 90s (and others back to 1971) I was never in the motorcycle end
|>of the business and don't know motorcycle battery types and sizes.  I
|>gather, possibly incorrectly, that GT9B-4 is more a standard battery
|>SIZE rather than a specific battery made by Yuasa.  That said, when I

    It's a totally Sealed like a BRICK, "Spaciality" Battery GSyuasa
(Recent Merger)  GT9B-4/YT9B-4/YT9B-BS, are all the same, whereas the
cheaper ones are redone AGMs with vent caps, or "wiggly" sealed.

|>look at the batteries Yuasa makes for motorcycles (Google search) they
|>seem to be exclusively AGM.  If this is the case for your GT9B-4 then
|>you need to set the charger for AGM, not regular (flooded?).  AGM
|>batteries require a higher charge voltage than flooded batteries and
|>use of the "regular" (flooded?) setting will result in a chronically
|>undercharged AGM battery.  That would explain why your outboard
|>charger is not maintaining your battery.
|>

    They make all kinds of GSyuasa G/YT9B-4 batteries, not all are
sealed, but they are all the same size with 12v/8a/115cca...sure they are
called AGM, but not on the battery, just in the promo. If you open the
vents, ohoh....they are all AGM, with white AGM sponge plates with the rest
being  air.

|>But, bottom line, your motorcycle charging system determines what
|>battery type you need to use.  If it's designed for AGM, then you need
|>to use AGM... and if this is the case, and given the problems you've
|>been describing, you probably need to have the charging system looked
|>at and repaired/replaced.  If it's designed for "regular" batteries -
|>which I assume means flooded - then that's the battery type you need
|>to use.
|>

    Well I got this battery at a Yamaha Dealer were I ought the Scooter
new, and all they said was these batteries don't like a lot of volts, but
last year, they called the GT9B-4 a Gel...

|>A caveat - I'm not familiar with motorcycles other than the one I
|>owned in the late 60s.  It had a flooded battery because that's all
|>there was at the time.  Perhaps none of them use flooded batteries
|>these days.  I wouldn't be a bit surprised to hear that.

    Right, and your auto charger absorbed at 14.5v, and floated at 13.7
at only 12.2volts like a cliplight laser constant amperage charger...when it
found a battery that didn't hold on float for 20 hours, it went into full
charging mode again..

    The chargers haven't changed much, except for a slight finesse in
charging differences, much more lights and constant digital LED battery
voltage reportage.

    Most motorcycle batteries are being replaced by agm since the
1980's, but they are getting almost totally phased out, just like the modern
car ones....same thing.

    So I still don't know really know if this GSyuasa GT9B-4 VRLA is a
Wet or agm/polimion, since GS does not make a polimion or conventional in
the GSyuasa GT9B-4 power/size format...wereas other battery sizes and power,
have a selection....
 
--
Triad Productions-Fantalla®~EZine~ParaNovel
National Association of Assault Research
(http://tarbitch.balder.prohosting.com/htmlconc . html)

 

wrote:

|>
|>>***So I should set the Charger for GSyuasa G/YT9B-4 AGM, since it says VRLA,
|>>but the battery is a virtual brick for some reason, not like the aftermarket
|>>AGM ones that have rubber and plastic vent caps anyways.***
|>
|>A totally sealed brick is almost certainly AGM or equivalent so set
|>the charger to AGM.

    I always thought the super seal, was to emphasize the non-spillable
aspect of a WET battery, and sulfuric acid secure enough to pass the
transportation i$$ues.

    I think the AGM concept was to circumvent the transportation i$$ues,
whereas the separate bottle or plastic tubes should have done the job...
the instructions on the battery emphasis the non-spillable issue, and say
the battery is full of acid....so I'm, not too sure about the AGM
compliance.
    Although it can be installed at 45deg angles, the box it came in did
say *This Side Up* proly for some other reason or no reason at all.

    I always pre charge a new battery to a 2 day trickle on the
auto-charger.....

    My battery in the MF VRLA GSyuasa GT9B-4 is not *polimion*, and the
AGM setting on the SC1200 auto charger, could overcharge it, as in evaporate
the irreplaceable water levels.

    My charger "pings" up to 15.2volts in all (Reg/Agm/Marine settings)
the algorithmic cycle although it can go 17volts for worse batteries, then
it drops to 13.2 for 10 minutes, then ping cycles up again...

    In AGM/Gel mode, it stays at 13.5 for 10 minutes before starting the
float algorithm cycle again, as in (Message-ID:

    AGMs were not a real good replacement in the RCapacity concept of
M/Cycle batteries, due to the over stressing of the alternator's limited
(%75) output, and a lot of these batts., say they should be topped up
monthly, or the usual 12.5 volts....

Thanx Again

Bob