Question on chain & sprocket

 Hi All,

  About 3 weeks ago I bought a nice used 1980 CB750 (DOHC) bike with about
22K miles on it for $700 and have been really enjoying the bike.  There were
a few minor things wrong with it that I've fixed (turn signals backwards and
missing a ground wire, petcock main/reserve tank tube missing, sticky front
caliper, etc.)

  Anyway, the big problem with the bike so far is the drive chain is
stretched and needs replacement, and both rear wheel and transmission
sprocket are worn and need replacing.

  What is on there right now are the Honda stock parts, they are a 18 tooth
front sprocket, a 46 tooth rear sprocket, and a 630 o ring chain.

  I used to own a Kawasaki KZ650 and when the chain stretched on that I
bought the cheapest non-o-ring chain I could find and the cheapest sprockets
I could find, and put them on, and the setup lasted about a year and a half
before it too was stretched (and yes I lubed the chain regularly, but I also
rode it in the rain)  I think I peened over the master link on that one with
a hammer and chisel and a big rock.

  This time I would really like to do it different and get a bit better
parts that might last longer - if such a thing is possible - and the right
chain tools to do the job.  I'm mainly going to be using the bike for
freeway commuting and in the good weather (not the rain)

  In talking to the local Honda dealer parts desk (who are idiots, they
claimed the factory chain was a 520 among other things, until I showed them
my factory service manual that states the chain is a 630) I got a price on
sprockets of about $170 just for the sprockets, and about $150 for the
chain.  (plus $50 labor for installing it which I won't rant against right
now)

  My question for the rest of you, is $320 for a garden variety, grocery
getter, NON race, sprocket and chain set realistic?  Is that what the rest
of you are paying?  This is a $700 bike after all, not to mention the DOHC's
didn't have a lot of reliability over the long haul anyway.

  It also does not seem that there's a lot of aftermarket bike parts places
that sell a set like this - I see lots and lots and lots of gold-plated
racing sets for other bikes out there, which from appearances seem to have
little to do with real racing, and a lot to do with "ricing up the bike" but
those are all wimpy small chains (lighter weight supposedly is better) and
the sprockets are the wrong tooth combo, but they sell for a lot cheaper
than what the dealer is quoting.  It seems as though if a wearable item like
this is that expensive that lots of aftermarket people would be out there
making them.  Or maybe the bike is too old?

The other question I have concerns the tool to rivet the master link - I
can't seem to find anyone locally here that sells them (including the
dealer) and so looking on ebay I see that there seems to be 2 common Chinese
chain tools out there, they are:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&itemF38086607

(cheap little tool)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&itemF36601477

(more expensive tool)

One last question I have concerns lubing the chain - with an o-ring chain
does it really make any difference in longevity?  The bike manual says not
to lube it except with gear oil, but I've seen some websites people have put
up where they say the o ring chains are a big rip off and don't last any
longer than a regular chain, and that both types of chains really only last
if your lubing them practically daily.

Anyway, any advice on the above would be appreciated!

Ted

 

I have - unfortunately all the aftermarket places I've seen only
sell 630-530 conversion sprockets.  Sunstar, RK, etc.   All of
them seem to think the 530 chain is perfectly fine.  The only 630
sprockets I've been able to find are the OEM ones from Honda,
and I cannot imagine that the aftermarket couldn't have improved
on these with better steel, etc.


sprockets.

Yes, but all of them sell the same ones.  Some of the brands, like
vortex, don't carry sprockets for this bike at all, or if they do they
don't cross what they have to it.

My take on it is that just like the auto parts market, there are only
a handful of manufacturers that actually MAKE the parts, and
everyone else selling them is just selling the same stuff, for pretty
much the same price.  And what is worse is that for the more oddball
(ie: older) bikes that there are fewer of them out there, the smaller
parts manufacturers don't make parts for them at all.

For example in the auto parts biz, a big conglomerate like Federal
Mogul will still make parts for something like a 1975 Datsun 510,
because they make so many parts that adding a few ones that are
really slow movers doesen't cost them anything, and it adds to their
full service parts line.  They know a lot of retailers carry them because
it's easier for the retailer to deal with just a single company.  But a
smaller manufacturer like Borg Warner won't make those parts they
just focus on the cherry parts like a part for a 1998 Chevy.

It kind of seems like Sunstar is the big sprocket maker for bikes
out there, but I don't know enough about the business to know.
And Sunstar is one of the ones that cross only to a 530 conversion
sprocket, probably because they don't want to make a lower-volume
part like a 630 sprocket for a 1980 Honda.


Chinese

Been there, done that.  It just makes the final result look like it was
done by an amateur, and unless you hit the rivet exactly correctly,
it doesen't pooch out evenly.  Why do it when you can get the correct
tool pretty cheaply?

Ted

 

The 530 chain is not only fine, it is far superior to the 630
abhorration. The 5/8" pitch makes a smoother ride over the
sprockets and is lighter. A lighter chain means less forces
when the chain "whips".
630 was introduced, found lacking, and sent to the scrap heap
of motorcycle history.


I've never seen sprockets that were better than OEM. That is
probably because I was never interested in "high performance"
bits that cost more than OEM. The general aftermarket
sprockets are rather crude (to put it mildly).

As for your question about longevity of O-ring chains compared
to regular. The difference is dramatic. If you put a 1/10 of the
work you would do on a regular chain into a O-ring chain, you
will get anything from twice to 5 times the life.

Care and feeding of O-ring chains depends entirely on your
local climate and riding habits. Easiest solution is to buy a
can of spray on chain lube at your dealer. My personal
recommendation would be to stay away from what is known
as chain wax. You need a bit of lubrication to keep the
O-rings happy (too much friction and rust will shred them)
and to prevent surface rust on the chain.

--
Ole Holmblad - Göteborgs Prima MCK / MK Pionjär
TDM850 / TT600R  FL#44  OTC#489  UKRMSBC#08
SGFPTH#00   Remove hat to answer by mail

 

And there I go, posting before thinking.

So, thinking a bit, I come to the conclusion that 530 chain
might well be heavier than 630 chain.
If one can assume that the two types are made of equal
materials, you need the same sideplate thickness to get
enough tensile strength. Now the only difference is that
the 530 will come with a lot more pins, bushings and
rollers for the same length. Heavier.
OTOH, all the bushings and rollers are larger on the
630. So does anybody have some catalogue or other
reference to settle this. Or am I only being dense?

But, looking at bikes with a lot more power than an old
CB750 it seems that 530 or 525 is the way to go.
One good reason being that you can have smaller
sprockets but still not get so few teeth that the
velocity differences wear the chain out prematurely.

--
Ole Holmblad - Göteborgs Prima MCK / MK Pionjär
TDM850 / TT600R  FL#44  OTC#489  UKRMSBC#08
SGFPTH#00   Remove hat to answer by mail

 

Well I will be going to a 520 chain on my R6 as soon as it gets time
to replace the chain. It does make a significant difference.

Does a 520 chain along with an aluminum rear sprocket last as long as
a 530 chain with a steel rear sprocket? Nope.

But if I was worried about longevity and cost, I would drive my car.

Oh and while I agree about you about the McDonalds statement, I have
not set foot in a McDonalds in over a year now =)


An aluminum rear sprocket will still wear faster in most cases...it
simply is a price you pay.


Not necessarily. Sometimes yes...sometimes no. I can't comment on
chains in particular though. But from personal experience and projects
I have worked on in the past, sometimes its free to make something
look a little better, sometimes it just requires a minor bit of
additional work, and sometimes the cost is so minor..but it makes it
worth it from a marketing point of view. Let's face it, if you could
choose between 2 products both equally good for the same price, but
one looked good the other looked like a dog turd, which would you
choose?


Yea but...who said anything about chroming something? We are not
talking about your local hardley parade here....


So I buy chains at the width I want rated for the power my machine
puts out and live happily ever after. What's the problem?

Particularly here in Germany where something such as a chain has to be
certified prior to being allowed on a bike. They are extremly picky
about vehicle modifications to the driveline around here. So I can
rest assured that the 520 chain that will be going on my bike, can
indeed handle the power my bike puts out...barring any potential
manufacturer defects of course which can happen in ANY product.


I honestly can't remember manufacturer of the 520 set I had on my old
R6. I know it worked. I know it worked really well. I was happy with
it. Made that bike feel much much better.

On my current one I still have the stock 530 chain and stock sprockets
because I just bought the bike earlier this year and have not yet
gotten around to modding the bike yet. I have some other mods planned
prior to the chain anyways, won't be changing the chain and sprockets
until it becomes time to replace them.

--
Stephan
2003 Yamaha R6