Posted by tomorrow@erols.com on February 16, 2009, 9:17 am
wrote:
> > tomorrow@erols.com wrote:
> > > > Antbody who knows jack shit about 5-angle valve jobs know
> > > > that they are for extracting that tiny last bit of ca$h from the
> > > > power-hungry enthusiast's wallet.
> > > > 5-angle valve jobs enhance air flow *slightly*
> > > > and cash flow immensely, since the
> > > > heads will have to come back off for *another*
> > > > valve job in a few thousand miles.
> > > > And that doesn't make any sense for a *street bike*.
> > > I'll take my information from the man who has been building engines
> > > for over twenty years, who has built engines for my race partner, race
> > > competitors, and me in the past, whose *race* engines don't need to
> > > have the heads off "in a few thousand miles" and who patiently and
> > > accurately discussed the differences between a 3-angle valve job and
> > > a 5-angle valve job to me. (And besides, he did a 3-angle valve job in
> > > the engine anyway, as explained elsewhere in this thread.)
> > > "A 3 or 5 angle valve job refers specifically to the number of angles
> > > machined on and around the valve seat. Most valve seats use a 45
> > > degree sealing surface; the other two or four angles can be referred
> > > to as entry and exit angles. For example a 3 angle valve job with a 45
> > > degree seat would also machine a 30 degree exit angle just below the
> > > valve seat on an intake port (this would be considered an entry angle
> > > on an exhaust port), and a 60 degree entry angle just above the seat
> > > on an intake port (& vice versa). A 5 angle valve job typically adds
> > > 15 and 75 degree cuts to the ones mentioned above. This process is
> > > intended to create a funnel leading into, past and out from around the
> > > valve itself. "
> > > So, as explained by Donnie, the two additional cuts in a 5-angle
> > > valve job have absolutely no effect on the valve seat width or the
> > > total valve seating area or the longevity of the valve job.
> > > And he would be 100% correct. I built engines, for a living for over 10
> > > years. Everything from Kohler singles to Buick straight 8s, to Rolls
> > > Royce V8s. A 5 angle valve job, while being a slight pita compared to
> > > the 3 angle, wont affect longevity in the slightest, nor reduce the
> > > width of the valve seat.
> Kevin Cameron might disagree with you...
> http://books.google.com/books?id=LswdRd2Zm8YC&pg=PA64&dq=narrow+%22fi ...
Why would you think that Kevin might disagree with Steve or me? The
quote that you provided shows that he RECOMMENDS a 5-angle valve job
if you "do nothing else" to your engine! Nowhere does he say that a 5-
angle valve job results in a narrower valve/seat contact area. He does
say that a high-performance valve job customer should consult with his
engine builder regarding what kind of use the engine is going to get,
which is EXACTLY what I did.
He also says that in racing engines, a builder MAYmachine the valve
face, which *will* result in a very narrow contact ring. Neither
Steve nor I (nor anyone else, including you) suggested that I was
having this done to my engine, and you certainly didn't mention it
when you claimed that a 5-angle valve job alone was simply a money-
maker for engine builders and would result in a narrow valve/seat
contact ring and subsequent frequent engine tear-downs.
> Go ahead, play "kick the baby", it's becoming a regular pastime in
> some newsgroups which meet to argue everyday, instead of discussing
> motorcycles, motorcycle technology, and motorcycle riding.
You're no baby, and you are the one arguing, trying to support an ill-
advised assertion.
How incredibly hard would it have been for you just to say "I checked
my sources and it is clear to me now that I misremembered what I had
read - it's not the 5-angle valve job itself that results in a narrow
valve/seat contact ring, but machining the valve face that does
that." ???
At least then you would have retained a bit of dignity and face,
instead of once again proving something entirely different to anyone
reading your response. (Cross-posted to rec.motorcycles and
rec.motorcycles.tech at your suggestion.)
Posted by . on February 16, 2009, 10:01 am
On Feb 16, 6:17 am, "tomorrow@erols.com"
> Why would you think that Kevin might disagree with Steve or me? The
> quote that you provided shows that he RECOMMENDS a 5-angle valve job
> if you "do nothing else" to your engine! Nowhere does he say that a 5-
> angle valve job results in a narrower valve/seat contact area. He does
> say that a high-performance valve job customer should consult with his
> engine builder regarding what kind of use the engine is going to get,
> which is EXACTLY what I did.
Your ego is heavily involved in this debate, isn't it?
On previous pages, Cameron says that, as a tech inspector, he has seen
engines with 3-angle, 5-angle, blended valve seat and *worse*
preparations in the winner's circle.
On a later page, Cameron says that that valve seats will need a lot of
maintenance and that you can be as "maniac" about refurbishing them as
you want to be.
Posted by Steve Mackay on February 16, 2009, 10:13 am
. wrote:
> On Feb 16, 6:17 am, "tomorrow@erols.com"
>
>> Why would you think that Kevin might disagree with Steve or me? The
>> quote that you provided shows that he RECOMMENDS a 5-angle valve job
>> if you "do nothing else" to your engine! Nowhere does he say that a 5-
>> angle valve job results in a narrower valve/seat contact area. He does
>> say that a high-performance valve job customer should consult with his
>> engine builder regarding what kind of use the engine is going to get,
>> which is EXACTLY what I did.
>
> Your ego is heavily involved in this debate, isn't it?
>
> On previous pages, Cameron says that, as a tech inspector, he has seen
> engines with 3-angle, 5-angle, blended valve seat and *worse*
> preparations in the winner's circle.
>
> On a later page, Cameron says that that valve seats will need a lot of
> maintenance and that you can be as "maniac" about refurbishing them as
> you want to be.
The key words being... "can be", and not "must be". And it had nothing
to do with the valve seats being cut at 3 angles or 5.
Krusty, try to stop throwing up your straw man arguments. It's just
making you look far more ignorant about the subject.
Posted by . on February 16, 2009, 10:34 am
> Krusty, try to stop throwing up your straw man arguments. It's just
> making you look far more ignorant about the subject.
Usenet master debaters do like to spend endless hours talking about
the fine
points of debating, and "but *you* said," etc., don't you?
I always thought of Usenet as a forum for exchanging information, not
debating.
Posted by S'mee on February 17, 2009, 9:36 pm
SNIP
> I always thought of Usenet as a forum for exchanging information, not
> debating.
Gee, lying again I see loser. No real surprise...you are so pathetic
that you are THE DEFINITION of pathetic.
--
Keith
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> > > > Antbody who knows jack shit about 5-angle valve jobs know
> > > > that they are for extracting that tiny last bit of ca$h from the
> > > > power-hungry enthusiast's wallet.
> > > > 5-angle valve jobs enhance air flow *slightly*
> > > > and cash flow immensely, since the
> > > > heads will have to come back off for *another*
> > > > valve job in a few thousand miles.
> > > > And that doesn't make any sense for a *street bike*.
> > > I'll take my information from the man who has been building engines
> > > for over twenty years, who has built engines for my race partner, race
> > > competitors, and me in the past, whose *race* engines don't need to
> > > have the heads off "in a few thousand miles" and who patiently and
> > > accurately discussed the differences between a 3-angle valve job and
> > > a 5-angle valve job to me. (And besides, he did a 3-angle valve job in
> > > the engine anyway, as explained elsewhere in this thread.)
> > > "A 3 or 5 angle valve job refers specifically to the number of angles
> > > machined on and around the valve seat. Most valve seats use a 45
> > > degree sealing surface; the other two or four angles can be referred
> > > to as entry and exit angles. For example a 3 angle valve job with a 45
> > > degree seat would also machine a 30 degree exit angle just below the
> > > valve seat on an intake port (this would be considered an entry angle
> > > on an exhaust port), and a 60 degree entry angle just above the seat
> > > on an intake port (& vice versa). A 5 angle valve job typically adds
> > > 15 and 75 degree cuts to the ones mentioned above. This process is
> > > intended to create a funnel leading into, past and out from around the
> > > valve itself. "
> > > So, as explained by Donnie, the two additional cuts in a 5-angle
> > > valve job have absolutely no effect on the valve seat width or the
> > > total valve seating area or the longevity of the valve job.
> > > And he would be 100% correct. I built engines, for a living for over 10
> > > years. Everything from Kohler singles to Buick straight 8s, to Rolls
> > > Royce V8s. A 5 angle valve job, while being a slight pita compared to
> > > the 3 angle, wont affect longevity in the slightest, nor reduce the
> > > width of the valve seat.
> Kevin Cameron might disagree with you...
> http://books.google.com/books?id=LswdRd2Zm8YC&pg=PA64&dq=narrow+%22fi ...