Posted by Homer Simpson on May 8, 2007, 10:50 pm
I have a battery for an ATV that I think has a couple of shorted
cells. I made sure the battery was full of juice (electrolyte), and
put it on 2A charge. I came back to it in the morning, and the battery
was REALLY hot. The clips for the charger were also hot. I unplugged
the charger, and let the battery sit until it cooled. I put a
multimeter across the terminals, and it only showed 8.something volts.
This battery sat at almost dead for a couple of months. I am wondering
if there is any way to squeeze any more life out of this battery. A
replacement is about $50, and I don't have that right now. (If I did,
I'd rather spend it on my bike then an ATV I am working on for my
sister. She doesn't have the money right now either..)
When I tap the side of the battery, I see bubbles rising to the top.
(I think this is normal....)
If I can't, looks like I need to track one down.... If anyone wants to
know, it's a YB12AL-A battery (the ATV is supposed to have a
YB12C-A)...
Posted by Rick Cortese on May 8, 2007, 11:07 pm
Homer Simpson wrote:
> I have a battery for an ATV that I think has a couple of shorted
> cells. I made sure the battery was full of juice (electrolyte), and
> put it on 2A charge. I came back to it in the morning, and the battery
> was REALLY hot. The clips for the charger were also hot. I unplugged
> the charger, and let the battery sit until it cooled. I put a
> multimeter across the terminals, and it only showed 8.something volts.
>
> This battery sat at almost dead for a couple of months. I am wondering
> if there is any way to squeeze any more life out of this battery. A
> replacement is about $50, and I don't have that right now. (If I did,
> I'd rather spend it on my bike then an ATV I am working on for my
> sister. She doesn't have the money right now either..)
>
> When I tap the side of the battery, I see bubbles rising to the top.
> (I think this is normal....)
>
> If I can't, looks like I need to track one down.... If anyone wants to
> know, it's a YB12AL-A battery (the ATV is supposed to have a
> YB12C-A)...
Stick a fork in it, I think it is done.
My guess is an internal short has developed and nothing short of cutting
the battery apart, clearing the short, replacing the electrolyte, and
gluing it back together will let it live again.
A trickle charger on it about once a month or starting it the same
should make sure the new one doesn't go south.
Rick
Posted by Albrecht via MotorcycleKB.com on May 9, 2007, 2:25 pm
Rick Cortese wrote:
>My guess is an internal short has developed and nothing short of cutting
>the battery apart, clearing the short, replacing the electrolyte, and
>gluing it back together will let it live again.
That's what we did to old airplane and fire engine batteries in the battery
shop at Edwards AFB back in the early 1960's.
The top of the battery would actually be sealed with *tar*, believe it or not,
and we would melt the tar with heat lamps, use a large diameter drill to
disconnect the jumpers between cells, and then pull the cells out of the case.
We would clean out the battery case, replace the corrugated separators, put
the cells back into the
case, reconnect the jumpers with a torch and lead stick.
Then we would refill the battery with fresh electrolyte and recharge it.
Airplane batteries wouldn't be returned to service, they were marked "For
Ground Power use Only".
Half the batteries that were repaired were usable, we scrapped the rest...
--
Message posted via http://www.motorcyclekb.com
Posted by Albrecht via MotorcycleKB.com on May 9, 2007, 8:37 am
Homer Simpson wrote:
>This battery sat at almost dead for a couple of months. I am wondering
>if there is any way to squeeze any more life out of this battery.
It's probably sulfated and may have shed lead from the plates too.
Battery plates will shed lead particles and they accumulate in the bottom of
the battery where they look like a silvery grey powder. You can see it from
underneath if your battery has a clear plastic case.
This accumulation shorts out the plates. If you try to charge a battery with
shorted plates, it gets hot.
Also, the electrochemistry of a battery causes sulfur to combine with the
spongy lead that is used to make the plates smaller. This coating of lead
sulfate keeps the electrolyte from penetrating the spongy lead, so the plates
can only take a weak charge on their surfaces
Maybe you could try flushing all the old acid and crud out of the battery
with distilled water and then refilling it with fresh electrolyte.
Read this article first. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead-acid_battery
I bought the blue liquid called "EDTA" (it cost about $10 a pint) and bought
a gallon of pre-mixed electrolyte for two bucks. I followed the recommended
procedure, but it didn't work, I wound up buying a new battery and it was
rough financially, because batteries effectively cost three or four times as
much as they do today.
>When I tap the side of the battery, I see bubbles rising to the top.
>(I think this is normal....)
Yes, bubbles of hydrogen gas will form on the plates as you charge the
battery. This will begin at about 14.4 volts. So motorcycles equipped with
flooded cell lead acid batteries use voltage regulators that reduce charging
current at 14.5 volts.
The metallic smell of hydrogen gas was always present in our battery shop at
Edwards AFB, where we had hundreds of lead acid batteries on manually
controlled chargers at all times.
We were not good robots...
"Because of the open cells with liquid electrolyte in most lead-acid
batteries, overcharging with excessive charging voltages will generate oxygen
and hydrogen gas by electrolysis of water, forming an explosive mix. This
should be avoided. Caution must also be observed because of the extremely
corrosive nature of sulfuric acid."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead-acid_battery
Most people don't have the time to play the voltage game with batteries and
give them the tender loving care they need, they use them until they have
problems, then they buy a new battery so they will have a reliable source of
starting power.
Flooded cell lead acid batteries require so much more attention than sealed
maintenance free batteries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead-acid_battery
The following are general voltage ranges for six-cell lead-acid batteries:
Open-circuit (quiescent) at full charge: 12.6 - 12.8 V
Open-circuit at full discharge: 11.8 - 12.0 V
Loaded at full discharge: 10.5 V.
Continuous-preservation (float) charging: 13.8V for gelled electrolyte; 13.4V
for flooded; and 13.5V for AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat)
All voltages are at 20C, and must be be adjusted for temperature changes.
Float voltage recommendations vary, always check manufacturers'
recommendation.
Precise (+/- 0.05V) float voltage IS critical to longevity; too low
(sulfation) is almost as bad as too high (corrosion & electrolyte loss)
Typical (daily) charging: 14.2 - 14.5 V (check mfr. recomendation)
Equalization charging (for flooded lead acids): 15 - 16 V
Gassing threshold: 14.4 V
After full charge the terminal voltage will drop quickly to 13.2 V and then
slowly to 12.6 V.
>If I can't, looks like I need to track one down.... If anyone wants to
>know, it's a YB12AL-A battery (the ATV is supposed to have a
>YB12C-A)...
The mail order houses like www.denniskirk.com or Chaparral can provide you
with a new battery for less than it would cost to buy one from a motorcycle
$tealer$hip. The last time I bought a motorcycle battery, I paid half of the
best local price by driving to the next county and buying it from a discount
emporium that also does mail order.
--
Message posted via MotorcycleKB.com
http://www.motorcyclekb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/tech/200705/1
Posted by Homer Simpson on May 10, 2007, 2:12 pm
Thanks for all the info... I guess my sister is just going to have to
pony up for a new battery.... Bad thing is, she forgets about the ATVs
in the garage, and doesn't do anything utill either she wants to use
them, or if they won't work. The she calls me....
Thanks all
On Wed, 09 May 2007 12:37:17 GMT, "Albrecht via MotorcycleKB.com"
>Homer Simpson wrote:
>>This battery sat at almost dead for a couple of months. I am wondering
>>if there is any way to squeeze any more life out of this battery.
>It's probably sulfated and may have shed lead from the plates too.
>Battery plates will shed lead particles and they accumulate in the bottom of
>the battery where they look like a silvery grey powder. You can see it from
>underneath if your battery has a clear plastic case.
>This accumulation shorts out the plates. If you try to charge a battery with
>shorted plates, it gets hot.
>Also, the electrochemistry of a battery causes sulfur to combine with the
>spongy lead that is used to make the plates smaller. This coating of lead
>sulfate keeps the electrolyte from penetrating the spongy lead, so the plates
>can only take a weak charge on their surfaces
>Maybe you could try flushing all the old acid and crud out of the battery
>with distilled water and then refilling it with fresh electrolyte.
>Read this article first. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead-acid_battery
>I bought the blue liquid called "EDTA" (it cost about $10 a pint) and bought
>a gallon of pre-mixed electrolyte for two bucks. I followed the recommended
>procedure, but it didn't work, I wound up buying a new battery and it was
>rough financially, because batteries effectively cost three or four times as
>much as they do today.
>>When I tap the side of the battery, I see bubbles rising to the top.
>>(I think this is normal....)
>Yes, bubbles of hydrogen gas will form on the plates as you charge the
>battery. This will begin at about 14.4 volts. So motorcycles equipped with
>flooded cell lead acid batteries use voltage regulators that reduce charging
>current at 14.5 volts.
>The metallic smell of hydrogen gas was always present in our battery shop at
>Edwards AFB, where we had hundreds of lead acid batteries on manually
>controlled chargers at all times.
>We were not good robots...
> "Because of the open cells with liquid electrolyte in most lead-acid
>batteries, overcharging with excessive charging voltages will generate oxygen
>and hydrogen gas by electrolysis of water, forming an explosive mix. This
>should be avoided. Caution must also be observed because of the extremely
>corrosive nature of sulfuric acid."
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead-acid_battery
>Most people don't have the time to play the voltage game with batteries and
>give them the tender loving care they need, they use them until they have
>problems, then they buy a new battery so they will have a reliable source of
>starting power.
>Flooded cell lead acid batteries require so much more attention than sealed
>maintenance free batteries.
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead-acid_battery
>The following are general voltage ranges for six-cell lead-acid batteries:
>Open-circuit (quiescent) at full charge: 12.6 - 12.8 V
>Open-circuit at full discharge: 11.8 - 12.0 V
>Loaded at full discharge: 10.5 V.
>Continuous-preservation (float) charging: 13.8V for gelled electrolyte; 13.4V
>for flooded; and 13.5V for AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat)
>All voltages are at 20C, and must be be adjusted for temperature changes.
>Float voltage recommendations vary, always check manufacturers'
>recommendation.
>Precise (+/- 0.05V) float voltage IS critical to longevity; too low
>(sulfation) is almost as bad as too high (corrosion & electrolyte loss)
>Typical (daily) charging: 14.2 - 14.5 V (check mfr. recomendation)
>Equalization charging (for flooded lead acids): 15 - 16 V
>Gassing threshold: 14.4 V
>After full charge the terminal voltage will drop quickly to 13.2 V and then
>slowly to 12.6 V.
>>If I can't, looks like I need to track one down.... If anyone wants to
>>know, it's a YB12AL-A battery (the ATV is supposed to have a
>>YB12C-A)...
>The mail order houses like www.denniskirk.com or Chaparral can provide you
>with a new battery for less than it would cost to buy one from a motorcycle
>$tealer$hip. The last time I bought a motorcycle battery, I paid half of the
>best local price by driving to the next county and buying it from a discount
>emporium that also does mail order.
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> cells. I made sure the battery was full of juice (electrolyte), and
> put it on 2A charge. I came back to it in the morning, and the battery
> was REALLY hot. The clips for the charger were also hot. I unplugged
> the charger, and let the battery sit until it cooled. I put a
> multimeter across the terminals, and it only showed 8.something volts.
>
> This battery sat at almost dead for a couple of months. I am wondering
> if there is any way to squeeze any more life out of this battery. A
> replacement is about $50, and I don't have that right now. (If I did,
> I'd rather spend it on my bike then an ATV I am working on for my
> sister. She doesn't have the money right now either..)
>
> When I tap the side of the battery, I see bubbles rising to the top.
> (I think this is normal....)
>
> If I can't, looks like I need to track one down.... If anyone wants to
> know, it's a YB12AL-A battery (the ATV is supposed to have a
> YB12C-A)...