Posted by Tiago on April 15, 2009, 12:40 pm
Hi!
Well, since I have been fooled multiple times by so-called
"professional" motorcycle mechanics I decided to make my own
maintenance. After learning a few tricks I met a realy pro guy, who
taught me a lot more tricks - he said that if I did a carb cleaning
myself he'd be free to do more expensive jobs... Really nice guy who
was run over by a bus and is really broken up at home. He will
recover, I hope, in 70 days will happen Sertoes Rally, one of the
biggest of the world, 10 days of hard racing, this guy is there every
year as a head of one of the teams. I have been invited to race, but
the sign up for me and 2 buddies to be "the team" would cost over 5k
USD. <http://www.dunas.com.br/ing/main.php?inc=eventos/sertoes/
inscricao&pag=rallysertoes&sub=sertoes> the link is in english :-)
Okay, enough soft talk, I don't have a proper bike and much less the
money to run on Sertoes, but someday I will win the lotto, so, enough
day dreaming for today.
All bikes I messed up with had the old true and tested screw/nut
method of adjusting valve clearance. Most service manuals states
0.08mm for intake and 0.12 for exhaust. I never bothered to look for
feeler gauges that had these values. The most commonly found here are
on 0.05 increments, so 0.10 for intake and 0.15 for exhaust seems very
reasonable, valves must tick a little, right? Well, now I got a bike
with that bucket/shim adjust method and with tolerances that are not
featured on my feeler gauge. Since I got the bike, I checked the valve
clearances three or four times and by using my 0.05 precision gauges I
always found them to be more or less within spec, well, not until last
night.
On one of the exhaust valves (we're talking about a 250cc air/oil
cooled, dohc Honda engine here) I can't fit the 0.15 blade, but the
0.10 goes in loose so it must be somewhere between and one of the
intake I can't get in the 0.10, but the 0.05 is loose, looser than the
0.10 on the exhaust.
I need shims, at least two of them. I suspect one of my exhaust valves
is leaking, with the head off I filled the space between the exhaust
"mouth" and the valves with gasoline and it seeped a little, actually,
it "sweated" gasoline... So, besides new shims, I need to lap this
valve, but to be honest, I won't be doing this anytime soon, because I
let the gasoline there for half an hour and it seeped so little I
won't worry. Compression is up to 170psi, good enough for me. I ask:
Should I look harder for the blades that have 0.01mm precision or
adjusting the valves to 0.10 intake and 0.15 exhaust would suffice? I
don't think so, because someday I will have to check the clearance
again and will not find the correct value for the shim... Do you guys
have the high precision feeler gauge? If not, how you usually do
things? Oh, mechanics around here won't adjust valves of this, they
say this is "only dealer can do it", the pro guy is all broken up and
can't work right now and I refuse to take my bike to dealer, I'd
rather let it blow, I won't be fooled again, I promised that myself
long ago and breaking promises is bad, I don't want to go to hell.
What I really need is win the lotto, get a two stroke bike, a nice RV
and go race Sertoes... :-)
-- T
Posted by fran...123 on April 15, 2009, 7:53 pm
Tiago wrote in message
>Hi!
>Well, since I have been fooled multiple times by so-called
>"professional" motorcycle mechanics I decided to make my own
>maintenance. After learning a few tricks I met a realy pro guy, who
>taught me a lot more tricks - he said that if I did a carb cleaning
>myself he'd be free to do more expensive jobs... Really nice guy who
>was run over by a bus and is really broken up at home. He will
>recover, I hope, in 70 days will happen Sertoes Rally, one of the
>biggest of the world, 10 days of hard racing, this guy is there every
>year as a head of one of the teams. I have been invited to race, but
>the sign up for me and 2 buddies to be "the team" would cost over 5k
>USD. <http://www.dunas.com.br/ing/main.php?inc=eventos/sertoes/
>inscricao&pag=rallysertoes&sub=sertoes> the link is in english :-)
>Okay, enough soft talk, I don't have a proper bike and much less the
>money to run on Sertoes, but someday I will win the lotto, so, enough
>day dreaming for today.
>All bikes I messed up with had the old true and tested screw/nut
>method of adjusting valve clearance. Most service manuals states
>0.08mm for intake and 0.12 for exhaust. I never bothered to look for
>feeler gauges that had these values. The most commonly found here are
>on 0.05 increments, so 0.10 for intake and 0.15 for exhaust seems very
>reasonable, valves must tick a little, right? Well, now I got a bike
>with that bucket/shim adjust method and with tolerances that are not
>featured on my feeler gauge. Since I got the bike, I checked the valve
>clearances three or four times and by using my 0.05 precision gauges I
>always found them to be more or less within spec, well, not until last
>night.
>On one of the exhaust valves (we're talking about a 250cc air/oil
>cooled, dohc Honda engine here) I can't fit the 0.15 blade, but the
>0.10 goes in loose so it must be somewhere between and one of the
>intake I can't get in the 0.10, but the 0.05 is loose, looser than the
>0.10 on the exhaust.
>I need shims, at least two of them. I suspect one of my exhaust valves
>is leaking, with the head off I filled the space between the exhaust
>"mouth" and the valves with gasoline and it seeped a little, actually,
>it "sweated" gasoline... So, besides new shims, I need to lap this
>valve, but to be honest, I won't be doing this anytime soon, because I
>let the gasoline there for half an hour and it seeped so little I
>won't worry. Compression is up to 170psi, good enough for me. I ask:
>Should I look harder for the blades that have 0.01mm precision or
>adjusting the valves to 0.10 intake and 0.15 exhaust would suffice? I
>don't think so, because someday I will have to check the clearance
>again and will not find the correct value for the shim... Do you guys
>have the high precision feeler gauge? If not, how you usually do
>things? Oh, mechanics around here won't adjust valves of this, they
>say this is "only dealer can do it", the pro guy is all broken up and
>can't work right now and I refuse to take my bike to dealer, I'd
>rather let it blow, I won't be fooled again, I promised that myself
>long ago and breaking promises is bad, I don't want to go to hell.
>What I really need is win the lotto, get a two stroke bike, a nice RV
>and go race Sertoes... :-)
>-- T
Though all of my feeler gauges are at least 20 years old they have some
really thin leafs on one end after a thick one to kind of protect it. two
thousands, three thousands, By memory six for intake eight for exhaust or
more on other engines. Just add up a stack of two or three. A few leafs
had to have a little trimmed to fit into motorcycle adjusting spaces. yes
they have metric numbers on them too.
Take it for what it cost, the advice, the bucket and shim system doesn't
seem to move around as much as the rocker arm system. I don't really wind
my stuff out and generally no adjustment is needed. You will have to find
out if your particular engine is prone to valve or seat or guide wear.
I have seen the real mechanics tools which contain feeler gauge blades about
six inches long instead of the three inch ones I have. obviously the bucket
and shim system the cams have to be removed to get at the shim. Perhaps the
idea is that the dealers have an assortment of the shims.
I couldn't get a much of an answer out of the Kawasaki dealer about the
valve adjustment on bucket and shim type and the extendable warranty to four
years and what if you didn't have them do it at the recommended intervals.
Fran
Posted by Wudsracer on April 17, 2009, 1:35 pm
Tiago,
Like Fran, I have a "set" of feeler gauges. It looks much like this
one:
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO 544474&PMT4NO=0
or this one:
http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO 59633&PMT4NOb214472
(metric)
To get incremental sizes, I take the set apart and put two or three
(or however many I need) together to get the thickness I need. for the
job.
Good Riding and Wrenching to You!
Jim
************************************************************************
wrote:
>Tiago wrote in message
>>Hi!
>>
>>Well, since I have been fooled multiple times by so-called
>>"professional" motorcycle mechanics I decided to make my own
>>maintenance. After learning a few tricks I met a realy pro guy, who
>>taught me a lot more tricks - he said that if I did a carb cleaning
>>myself he'd be free to do more expensive jobs... Really nice guy who
>>was run over by a bus and is really broken up at home. He will
>>recover, I hope, in 70 days will happen Sertoes Rally, one of the
>>biggest of the world, 10 days of hard racing, this guy is there every
>>year as a head of one of the teams. I have been invited to race, but
>>the sign up for me and 2 buddies to be "the team" would cost over 5k
>>USD. <http://www.dunas.com.br/ing/main.php?inc=eventos/sertoes/
>>inscricao&pag=rallysertoes&sub=sertoes> the link is in english :-)
>>
>>Okay, enough soft talk, I don't have a proper bike and much less the
>>money to run on Sertoes, but someday I will win the lotto, so, enough
>>day dreaming for today.
>>
>>All bikes I messed up with had the old true and tested screw/nut
>>method of adjusting valve clearance. Most service manuals states
>>0.08mm for intake and 0.12 for exhaust. I never bothered to look for
>>feeler gauges that had these values. The most commonly found here are
>>on 0.05 increments, so 0.10 for intake and 0.15 for exhaust seems very
>>reasonable, valves must tick a little, right? Well, now I got a bike
>>with that bucket/shim adjust method and with tolerances that are not
>>featured on my feeler gauge. Since I got the bike, I checked the valve
>>clearances three or four times and by using my 0.05 precision gauges I
>>always found them to be more or less within spec, well, not until last
>>night.
>>
>>On one of the exhaust valves (we're talking about a 250cc air/oil
>>cooled, dohc Honda engine here) I can't fit the 0.15 blade, but the
>>0.10 goes in loose so it must be somewhere between and one of the
>>intake I can't get in the 0.10, but the 0.05 is loose, looser than the
>>0.10 on the exhaust.
>>
>>I need shims, at least two of them. I suspect one of my exhaust valves
>>is leaking, with the head off I filled the space between the exhaust
>>"mouth" and the valves with gasoline and it seeped a little, actually,
>>it "sweated" gasoline... So, besides new shims, I need to lap this
>>valve, but to be honest, I won't be doing this anytime soon, because I
>>let the gasoline there for half an hour and it seeped so little I
>>won't worry. Compression is up to 170psi, good enough for me. I ask:
>>Should I look harder for the blades that have 0.01mm precision or
>>adjusting the valves to 0.10 intake and 0.15 exhaust would suffice? I
>>don't think so, because someday I will have to check the clearance
>>again and will not find the correct value for the shim... Do you guys
>>have the high precision feeler gauge? If not, how you usually do
>>things? Oh, mechanics around here won't adjust valves of this, they
>>say this is "only dealer can do it", the pro guy is all broken up and
>>can't work right now and I refuse to take my bike to dealer, I'd
>>rather let it blow, I won't be fooled again, I promised that myself
>>long ago and breaking promises is bad, I don't want to go to hell.
>>
>>What I really need is win the lotto, get a two stroke bike, a nice RV
>>and go race Sertoes... :-)
>>
>>-- T
>Though all of my feeler gauges are at least 20 years old they have some
>really thin leafs on one end after a thick one to kind of protect it. two
>thousands, three thousands, By memory six for intake eight for exhaust or
>more on other engines. Just add up a stack of two or three. A few leafs
>had to have a little trimmed to fit into motorcycle adjusting spaces. yes
>they have metric numbers on them too.
>Take it for what it cost, the advice, the bucket and shim system doesn't
>seem to move around as much as the rocker arm system. I don't really wind
>my stuff out and generally no adjustment is needed. You will have to find
>out if your particular engine is prone to valve or seat or guide wear.
>I have seen the real mechanics tools which contain feeler gauge blades about
>six inches long instead of the three inch ones I have. obviously the bucket
>and shim system the cams have to be removed to get at the shim. Perhaps the
>idea is that the dealers have an assortment of the shims.
>I couldn't get a much of an answer out of the Kawasaki dealer about the
>valve adjustment on bucket and shim type and the extendable warranty to four
>years and what if you didn't have them do it at the recommended intervals.
>Fran
Jim Cook
Tree Dodger Rock Finder
Team LAGNAF
2006 Gas Gas DE300
Posted by Tiago Rocha on April 17, 2009, 4:06 pm
> Tiago,
> Like Fran, I have a "set" of feeler gauges. It looks much like this
> one:http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=17544474&PMT4NO=0
> or this one:http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=1759633&PMT4NO=62214472
> (metric)
> To get incremental sizes, I take the set apart and put two or three
> (or however many I need) together to get the thickness I need. for the
> job.
> Good Riding and Wrenching to You!
Jim, problem is I can't get 0.08 and 0.12 in a set that has 0.05 and
next is 0.10... :-(
I think I will start looking for those blades, because seems that I no
longer can get away with adjusting by near values... Not now though.
Bike is running, valve leak is very low, it doesn't warrant a costly
head repair.
-- T
Posted by Volker Bartheld on April 20, 2009, 6:46 am
Hi!
> Jim, problem is I can't get 0.08 and 0.12 in a set that has 0.05 and
> next is 0.10... :-(
0.05, 0.10 and 0.15 are perfectly fine. For a spec of 0.08 the 0.05 should
go in easily, the 0.10 not at all. If you have to make adjustments, you'll
get used to "guessing" the fractions of millimeters that you gauge-set is
missing very soon.
However 0.08 seems a little tight for my taste an an air cooled engine. My
YZ426 required 0.15E/0.20A (0.12-0.18E and 0.18-0.23A) if I remember
correctly. And even the KTM LC4 engine with its rocker arms was supposed to
go with 0.12/0.20.
> I think I will start looking for those blades, because seems that I no
> longer can get away with adjusting by near values...
Depending on the design of your engine, valve freeplay will either reduce
or grow over time. All the bikes I have seen so far seemed to have less
freeplay over time - with one exception: The 1994 Honda XR600R I owned.
So you're perfectly safe using a tight 0.10 for your spec of 0.08. Nobody
won't even notice the difference.
Good wrenching to you,
Volker
--
@: I N F O at B A R T H E L D dot N E T
3W: www.bartheld.net
XML Sitemap
>Well, since I have been fooled multiple times by so-called
>"professional" motorcycle mechanics I decided to make my own
>maintenance. After learning a few tricks I met a realy pro guy, who
>taught me a lot more tricks - he said that if I did a carb cleaning
>myself he'd be free to do more expensive jobs... Really nice guy who
>was run over by a bus and is really broken up at home. He will
>recover, I hope, in 70 days will happen Sertoes Rally, one of the
>biggest of the world, 10 days of hard racing, this guy is there every
>year as a head of one of the teams. I have been invited to race, but
>the sign up for me and 2 buddies to be "the team" would cost over 5k
>USD. <http://www.dunas.com.br/ing/main.php?inc=eventos/sertoes/
>inscricao&pag=rallysertoes&sub=sertoes> the link is in english :-)
>Okay, enough soft talk, I don't have a proper bike and much less the
>money to run on Sertoes, but someday I will win the lotto, so, enough
>day dreaming for today.
>All bikes I messed up with had the old true and tested screw/nut
>method of adjusting valve clearance. Most service manuals states
>0.08mm for intake and 0.12 for exhaust. I never bothered to look for
>feeler gauges that had these values. The most commonly found here are
>on 0.05 increments, so 0.10 for intake and 0.15 for exhaust seems very
>reasonable, valves must tick a little, right? Well, now I got a bike
>with that bucket/shim adjust method and with tolerances that are not
>featured on my feeler gauge. Since I got the bike, I checked the valve
>clearances three or four times and by using my 0.05 precision gauges I
>always found them to be more or less within spec, well, not until last
>night.
>On one of the exhaust valves (we're talking about a 250cc air/oil
>cooled, dohc Honda engine here) I can't fit the 0.15 blade, but the
>0.10 goes in loose so it must be somewhere between and one of the
>intake I can't get in the 0.10, but the 0.05 is loose, looser than the
>0.10 on the exhaust.
>I need shims, at least two of them. I suspect one of my exhaust valves
>is leaking, with the head off I filled the space between the exhaust
>"mouth" and the valves with gasoline and it seeped a little, actually,
>it "sweated" gasoline... So, besides new shims, I need to lap this
>valve, but to be honest, I won't be doing this anytime soon, because I
>let the gasoline there for half an hour and it seeped so little I
>won't worry. Compression is up to 170psi, good enough for me. I ask:
>Should I look harder for the blades that have 0.01mm precision or
>adjusting the valves to 0.10 intake and 0.15 exhaust would suffice? I
>don't think so, because someday I will have to check the clearance
>again and will not find the correct value for the shim... Do you guys
>have the high precision feeler gauge? If not, how you usually do
>things? Oh, mechanics around here won't adjust valves of this, they
>say this is "only dealer can do it", the pro guy is all broken up and
>can't work right now and I refuse to take my bike to dealer, I'd
>rather let it blow, I won't be fooled again, I promised that myself
>long ago and breaking promises is bad, I don't want to go to hell.
>What I really need is win the lotto, get a two stroke bike, a nice RV
>and go race Sertoes... :-)
>-- T