Posted by XR650L_Dave on February 4, 2010, 7:39 pm
> On Thu, 4 Feb 2010 06:50:46 -0800 (PST), dsc-ky
> >> > XR650L_Dave points out:
> >> > > > > Did you hear the recently released 911 call from the father of a family
> >> > > > > of 4 as their car hit the end of the freeway at 120 mph?
> >> > > Mostly, but not completely true.
> >> > > My subaru, the brakes will fight the engine to a draw and get the car
> >> > > down to 30 or 40 or so, but if I kept at it the brakes would overheat
> >> > > and I'd lose 'em.
> >> >http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/how_to_deal_with_unintended ...
> >> > Strong foot, the instant you realize the throttle is WFO, is still my
> >> > plan. Flicking the beast into neutral is a good idea too but I'm not
> >> > convinced I want to take my hands off the bars while doing
> >> > this manuever.
> >> > As for the 911 call, yep, sounds like he overheated the brakes,
> >> > then decided best bet was to call for help. His cop training
> >> > I guess.
> >> > Rereading that, it's pretty harsh. But man, the call is 48 seconds
> >> > (that I found online), probably another 15 to dial and be connected,
> >> > go through the possibilities. Brakes, blew that. Switch it off,
> >> > forgot.
> >> > Trans to neutral, forgot. Trans to anything, even reverse, forgot.
> >> > Emergency brake, blew that. Find something soft to hit. Call the
> >> > cops. He skipped a few steps.
> >> > Go fast. Take chances.
> >> > Mike S.
> >> Slamming on the brakes 100% will certainly take the edge off the
> >> situation and allow time for other actions, and I'd have to think
> >> about buying a car without a damn key.
> >> I've been in a car where the throttle locked on full- friend in a
> >> pickup truck, I'm in the pass seat, he nailed the gas and it stuck, he
> >> goes 'Oh shit, what do I do'? I calmly replied 'Turn the key off'.
> >> Went through 3 iterations of this before I leaned over and turned off
> >> the key. It was only a 6 cyl, so there was time to see how he'd handle
> >> it. If it had been a V8, if he had time to ask what to do I would have
> >> already been at the key.
> >> It was a manual shift so he didn't even lose the power steering.
> >> I think the reliability of the modern car has dulled peoples ability
> >> to deal with a piece of equipment that does the unexpected, that dares
> >> to disobey.
> >> I've already become accustomed to turning off the key when the ABS
> >> betrays me and won't let me stop going downhill, the kind of
> >> conditions where if you can lock up the brakes, the tires cut through
> >> the snow/slush in a split second, but the ABS decides the right thing
> >> to do is just coast off into the sunset- or a creek.
> >> It's that characteristic of ABS that leads serious off-roaders to
> >> disable it while off-road, after a few went down slippery slopes and
> >> the ABS almost killed 'em.
> >> Dave- Hide quoted text -
> >> - Show quoted text -
> >On earlier models the abs was locked out if you put the vehicle in
> >4wd... I wish they didn't drop that idea.
> >I was playing with my abs the other day in the snow just to confirm
> >that it does infact work in 4wd (and it does). On the right hill, if
> >the abs engages... you may not stop... unless you can let up enough
> >to get it disengaged and still stop. It's clear to me that abs has
> >the potential to cause several wrecks every time it snows. It takes
> >much longer to stop... if it stops at all in some really slick low/
> >medium speed situations (especially downhill).
> Simple fix. Remove the ABS fuse and wire in a switch.
> Mike Baxter
Some euro cars actually come (or came) with an ABS-off switch.
Dave
Posted by JayC on February 3, 2010, 12:18 pm
> I'm afraid I may be having too much fun watching this Toyota debacle
> unfold. I have always thought that fly by wire systems were a sketchy
> proposition. Did they sub it out to Lucas?
Toyota's throttle problem is a mechanical one, not electrical. Not
enough WD40.
JayC
Posted by Rowdy on March 2, 2010, 8:49 pm
Dean H schrieb:
> I'm afraid I may be having too much fun watching this Toyota debacle
> unfold. I have always thought that fly by wire systems were a sketchy
> proposition. Did they sub it out to Lucas?
Well, over here in Diesel country most if not all vehicles are fly by
wire for years now. The '05 LandRover Discovery of my Mother has no
throttle cable anymore. The arbitrarily wandering idle speed was a
miracle for an electronically controlled engine, until a white haired
chief mechanic smiled, whipped out some WD40 and "greased" the
accelerator paddle. Problem gone.
Even my 10 years old VW Bus has drive by wire. (hence one can enable the
optional cruise control functionality via the OBD plug :)
This among other things is rumored to be the reason why all brake light
switches are twins, with both cable pairs routed independently. They
not only operate the brake lights but are used as panic input to kill
the engine, should the accelerator get stuck. An easy test: right foot
on the accelerator, left one very gently onto the brake, as soon as the
brake switch comes on the engine is instantly killed (until right above
idle).
The Toyota issue is similar to Mom's LandRover a mechanical one though.
But the wipers of my VW Bus from time to time switch from interval mode
to literally permanently on. They then ignore the wiper lever's
position, happily wiping on when the lever is at "off".
Cycling the ignition helps mostly, last resort: fuse out and back in.
Rowdy
Posted by Tiago on March 3, 2010, 6:31 am
> But the wipers of my VW
it is a VW! What do you expect? I had three of them.
I had a dune buggy with a 1500cc beetle engine. Nice car for a 19
y.o., I had fun, despite having to replace every thing mechanical,
including the engine (I then put a newer 1600cc dual carburetor, just
to make the already poor mileage drop like if I had drilled a hole in
the tank). Lucky me beetle/dune buggy parts - except the pricey
balloon tires - are very very cheap.
The '91 had so much electrical problems that a car electrician
suggested I needed to re-do the entire wiring... When it was raining,
I'd rather ride my bike, the wipers only worked when they wanted to.
Then I got a 2001 with throttle-by-wire and was less than impressed.
That piece of crap turned lots of my hairs white. It had a problem
that it would hesitate like it was flooded with gasoline. I spent a
ton of money fixing it. Dumb cheap design *without* check engine
light, but had an OBD II port. When mechanic plugged the scan, *every*
sensor was reported faulty...
After almost one year I found the problem. Previous owner installed an
aftermarket alarm and cut one of the wires going to the ECU and didn't
solder it, just twisted the wire ends and covered with electrician's
tape. The wire touched the car body, and ECU thought engine wasn't
getting any gas and flooded it... Got rid of it and got myself a
decent car from Toyota and it is amazing how it doesn't require weekly
mechanic visits like my previous VWs...
-- T
Posted by JayC on March 3, 2010, 11:18 am
> The arbitrarily wandering idle speed was a
> miracle for an electronically controlled engine, until a white haired
> chief mechanic smiled, whipped out some WD40 and "greased" the
> accelerator paddle. Problem gone.
See? WD40 really CAN fix everything.
JayC
> >> > XR650L_Dave points out:
> >> > > > > Did you hear the recently released 911 call from the father of a family
> >> > > > > of 4 as their car hit the end of the freeway at 120 mph?
> >> > > Mostly, but not completely true.
> >> > > My subaru, the brakes will fight the engine to a draw and get the car
> >> > > down to 30 or 40 or so, but if I kept at it the brakes would overheat
> >> > > and I'd lose 'em.
> >> >http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/how_to_deal_with_unintended ...
> >> > Strong foot, the instant you realize the throttle is WFO, is still my
> >> > plan. Flicking the beast into neutral is a good idea too but I'm not
> >> > convinced I want to take my hands off the bars while doing
> >> > this manuever.
> >> > As for the 911 call, yep, sounds like he overheated the brakes,
> >> > then decided best bet was to call for help. His cop training
> >> > I guess.
> >> > Rereading that, it's pretty harsh. But man, the call is 48 seconds
> >> > (that I found online), probably another 15 to dial and be connected,
> >> > go through the possibilities. Brakes, blew that. Switch it off,
> >> > forgot.
> >> > Trans to neutral, forgot. Trans to anything, even reverse, forgot.
> >> > Emergency brake, blew that. Find something soft to hit. Call the
> >> > cops. He skipped a few steps.
> >> > Go fast. Take chances.
> >> > Mike S.
> >> Slamming on the brakes 100% will certainly take the edge off the
> >> situation and allow time for other actions, and I'd have to think
> >> about buying a car without a damn key.
> >> I've been in a car where the throttle locked on full- friend in a
> >> pickup truck, I'm in the pass seat, he nailed the gas and it stuck, he
> >> goes 'Oh shit, what do I do'? I calmly replied 'Turn the key off'.
> >> Went through 3 iterations of this before I leaned over and turned off
> >> the key. It was only a 6 cyl, so there was time to see how he'd handle
> >> it. If it had been a V8, if he had time to ask what to do I would have
> >> already been at the key.
> >> It was a manual shift so he didn't even lose the power steering.
> >> I think the reliability of the modern car has dulled peoples ability
> >> to deal with a piece of equipment that does the unexpected, that dares
> >> to disobey.
> >> I've already become accustomed to turning off the key when the ABS
> >> betrays me and won't let me stop going downhill, the kind of
> >> conditions where if you can lock up the brakes, the tires cut through
> >> the snow/slush in a split second, but the ABS decides the right thing
> >> to do is just coast off into the sunset- or a creek.
> >> It's that characteristic of ABS that leads serious off-roaders to
> >> disable it while off-road, after a few went down slippery slopes and
> >> the ABS almost killed 'em.
> >> Dave- Hide quoted text -
> >> - Show quoted text -
> >On earlier models the abs was locked out if you put the vehicle in
> >4wd... I wish they didn't drop that idea.
> >I was playing with my abs the other day in the snow just to confirm
> >that it does infact work in 4wd (and it does). On the right hill, if
> >the abs engages... you may not stop... unless you can let up enough
> >to get it disengaged and still stop. It's clear to me that abs has
> >the potential to cause several wrecks every time it snows. It takes
> >much longer to stop... if it stops at all in some really slick low/
> >medium speed situations (especially downhill).
> Simple fix. Remove the ABS fuse and wire in a switch.
> Mike Baxter