Independence Day {Ride, Wrench, Bike, and Ride} Report

Dirt bikes and ATVs - Riding motorcycles and ATVs off-road. 

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Independence Day {Ride, Wrench, Bike, and Ride} Report JayC 07-05-2008
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Posted by JayC on July 5, 2008, 1:09 pm
You'll never guess what bike I took out for a spirited beat run this
past weekend:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3029/2639382048_e9024a7d85_b.jpg

Oddly enough, I realized the other day that it was the only bike that
was (almost) in riding condition, since my CR125 still isn't set up,
and my 250X is unguarded thanks to me losing all of the bash plate
clamps last time out. The GG's bash plate was off too, and I did try
to put it on, but after all of about 10 seconds of failing to be able
to hold the plate up, position the mounting bar, and put the screws in
at the same time (3 hand job), I got frustrated and decided that going
plateless was definitely worth the risk.

I hadn't ridden the bike since I blew it up last year, so this was the
inaugural run on the rebuild. It was still blatantly rich no matter
what I tried, so jetted the shitbox down as far as I could, going to a
168 main (smallest I had) and needle on position 1. It's rich just
off idle, so it needs a fatter needle - I think that Deeny's theory of
a worn needle jet in the carb body is right on the money. I could
probably compensate for it, but the bike has a proprietary needle, so
there's no way to get a reference. Oh well - close enough for jazz.
It ran fairly clean through the middle, but still needs to drop a few
sizes on the main, although the smokescreen the bike produces at WFO
might be a good racing strategy someday - nobody could follow you up a
rocky hillclimb with the Batmobile fogging up the path in the front.
But, I digress.

I took the bike for a quick run up the powerlines on Saturday to clear
out the motor and try out the lean(ist) jetting. The motor is soft
down low, but pulls strong in the upper mid, and has over-rev to the
moon, although is still a hair flat still smokes like a bastard when
hard on the main. I'm going to have to ride a perfectly tuned 125
someday to see how my tiddlers are running - I think they could get
better, but maybe they're supposed to be JUST like this - I have no
frame of reference, although the GG motor's power characteristics are
not unlike my CR, so maybe I'm close. I did a quick 3-4 mile run out
and back (helmetless and dressed in shorts, tee-shirt, and Rockport
casual-dress shoes). Yea-hah. I did a little of everything from 2'
rock-faced trials climbing to WFO down a flat straight. The bike
worked pretty good all around - requires a fair amount of clutch work,
but it's amazing what a new piston will do, and even more amazing what
20 pounds of bike feels like. It's faster on top than my 250X, that's
for sure. I made plans to ride with my son the next day.

That night, I was helping my son change his CR80's handlebars, and was
trying to force on a seemingly too-tight grip onto the throttle tube -
I was trying to twist the grip into the correct orientation (facing
forward - gotta have the logos registered correctly), when the tube
twisted and collapsed. "Oh shit". I have never seen anything like
that before. So much for our ride - no way I could replace a throttle
tube on the 4th of July, if at all locally. I felt like dumpus.

I woke up at 4:30 in the morning with a plan. I went down into the
garage and made a mandrel out of an old pair of bars and a few layers
of aluminum tape, so the throttle tube was just about a press-fit. I
gave the tube a little heat, then jammed the damaged tube onto the
mandrel and proceeded to continue to heat it with a torch, attempting
to re-form the memory of the plastic and push out the creases. It
would've been much easier with a heat gun, but the torch trick
appeared to work. After getting the tube off of the mandrel - it was
really stuck when I was done (PB Blaster to the rescue) I reamed the
inner surface with plumber's emery cloth wrapped around a 7/8" wood
boring bit. I also made a form out of another old pair of bars with a
stripe of emery cloth on it; I jammed the tube onto it and twisted -
worked great to tear off the high spots, but gave me some brutal arm
pump. I worked the tube with various forms until I was convinced it
had ample clearance everywhere - actually looser than stock. It felt
like I was going to collapse the tube again trying to put the new grip
back on though - it was some kind of firm compound that just didn't
want to stretch. I tossed that grip and dug one up I had laying
around that was made of much softer compound. It went on "like a
glove". Boy's bike back in business, and it was only 10:30am. Whew -
I did take a break in the middle where I fell asleep on the couch for
some amount of time, but nothing like putting in a 6 hour day before
anyone else in the house wakes up for the day.

This is where the magic happens:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3065/2638563849_bf581400c1.jpg

My son and I went out to deafen the neighbors on our matching
obnoxious 2-stinks in the early afternoon. We've been having daily
monsoons lately, so I knew the woods would be really wet. Sure
enough, there were puddles galore, but I think the rains have been so
severe, that the organics have actually washed away (much like the
$1000 worth of loam I spread two weeks ago - 'nother story), so the
black sticky glop that is usually everywhere was strangely absent -
the terrain was primarily a wet sandy loam, lots of exposed rocks and
roots, and wet leaves. Slippery it was, but not nearly as goopy as
usual, and LOTS of water.

I really liked riding the 2-stroke tiddler - much more so that I
expected, actually. It took a little while to get used to the
characteristic 125 top-only motor, and I'm still not sure where the
top of the top end is. After a while though, I got used to using the
12,000 RPM burst of power to get out of jams, and started having all
kinds of fun making use of strategic clutch-stabs. Several times I
got hung up on climbs, getting mired in rocky/rooty obstacles while
running out of RPMs - I could stab and dump the clutch and make the
bike just leap straight up and hop right over the whole mess. Now I
know why folks like stinkwheels so much, although I don't know if I'll
ever get used to not being able to grunt the front wheel into the air
with just a throttle twist, unless I'm already in the meat of the
upper RPM range, at which point I can't keep the front end down on a
bet. Speaking of clutch stabs, the hydraulic clutch just about makes
everything else worthwhile - I usually can't operate my clutch hand
after about 10 miles (and that's on a 4-stroke). The GG requires
constant clutch work, but my hand didn't even cramp up or go numb once
for the whole ride! That's a seriously big deal for me.

The bike has a flywheel weight, which I guess makes it spin up a
little slower than normal - I think I might like it better without one
- I'll find out if I ever take out my CR. Through the terrain in
general, I found I had to ride faster than I normally would to make
the bike work properly, both in the motor and suspension department,
but it wasn't uncomfortable. I felt faster on the 125, and I could
really feel the lack of 20 pounds compared to my 250X. I can only
imagine what my 20 pounds lighter still CR will feel like.

The highlight of the day was when I stopped, and my son pulled up to
me and pointed to the front of my bike. My radiator shroud was
missing. Huh, how odd. Shitty GG screws into plastic tank design.
My son saw the shroud laying in a puddle a short while back on the
trail and went back and retrieved it for me. Personally, I believe
that I was going SO fast, that the shroud was simply torn off by the
wind, at least that's my story and I'm sticking to it. It made a good
excuse to about face and head back, being that we were already late
for a BBQ. I strapped the plastic piece on my back and my son and we
prepared to take off. My son laid his bike over, tacked it up and
ripped a 180, spraying my bike and boots. Dead man walking. I rode
up about 20' to a convenient mud puddle, pulled the clutch, tapped the
rev-limiter and dumped the clutch. I started moving forward about 30
seconds later. A quarter-mile further, I stopped and my son pulled up
saying, "Nice - you TOTALLY covered me that time. Even got it in my
mouth." Heh - taught the boy another valuable life-lesson - never
ride with your mouth open, especially with someone in front of you on
a muddy day. Oddly enough, both of use were almost mud-free when we
got back, thanks to all the puddles we were crashing through the
entire day.

Anyhow, it was a fun couple of hours, and the duct-tape and baling
twine special served me well, considering. I don't know how much life
the bike has left in it (probably not much), but I plan on giving full
abuse until it's dead.

JayC

Posted by fran...123 on July 5, 2008, 3:44 pm
As for the grips, one guy uses any kind of spray paint around to get them on
and glued, another guy uses the type of air needle you would fill a volley
ball with and some air which makes the grips slide on. Of course you would
have to use this technique before cutting the end of the grip off for the
bark buster or like handguard. I like to use the existing grips and have yet
to wear through to the bar, the rectangular raised portions need trimming
after some of them start coming loose.

Aren't you supposed to try and stay away from those 12,000 rpm bursts on a
new piston and ring like on the brand new break in? For what it is worth, I
bought a new husqvarna wr 125 in 1999 and It smoked a lot when I revved it
out at the beginning. I thought it was ruined but it seemed to heal itself
by and by. Eventually I got a new piston from husky (not aftermarket) for
it basically because one of the power valves broke and contacted the piston
but I don't recall it smoking after installing the new piston. But I didn't
hone or re plate. I kind of think the 125 has all the types of power you
would want buts just a little slice or rev band for each kind. Well of
course it doesn't have killer torque down low but my 125 will not cough and
stall it just goes slower with less power. And if you do stall it and have
any kind of forward motion in any gear including first gear just pulling in
the clutch and then releasing re starts the engine. At least with the rear
sprocket I have probably with the original one as well.

Fran


> You'll never guess what bike I took out for a spirited beat run this
> past weekend:
>
> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3029/2639382048_e9024a7d85_b.jpg
>
> Oddly enough, I realized the other day that it was the only bike that
> was (almost) in riding condition, since my CR125 still isn't set up,
> and my 250X is unguarded thanks to me losing all of the bash plate
> clamps last time out. The GG's bash plate was off too, and I did try
> to put it on, but after all of about 10 seconds of failing to be able
> to hold the plate up, position the mounting bar, and put the screws in
> at the same time (3 hand job), I got frustrated and decided that going
> plateless was definitely worth the risk.
>
> I hadn't ridden the bike since I blew it up last year, so this was the
> inaugural run on the rebuild. It was still blatantly rich no matter
> what I tried, so jetted the shitbox down as far as I could, going to a
> 168 main (smallest I had) and needle on position 1. It's rich just
> off idle, so it needs a fatter needle - I think that Deeny's theory of
> a worn needle jet in the carb body is right on the money. I could
> probably compensate for it, but the bike has a proprietary needle, so
> there's no way to get a reference. Oh well - close enough for jazz.
> It ran fairly clean through the middle, but still needs to drop a few
> sizes on the main, although the smokescreen the bike produces at WFO
> might be a good racing strategy someday - nobody could follow you up a
> rocky hillclimb with the Batmobile fogging up the path in the front.
> But, I digress.
>
> I took the bike for a quick run up the powerlines on Saturday to clear
> out the motor and try out the lean(ist) jetting. The motor is soft
> down low, but pulls strong in the upper mid, and has over-rev to the
> moon, although is still a hair flat still smokes like a bastard when
> hard on the main. I'm going to have to ride a perfectly tuned 125
> someday to see how my tiddlers are running - I think they could get
> better, but maybe they're supposed to be JUST like this - I have no
> frame of reference, although the GG motor's power characteristics are
> not unlike my CR, so maybe I'm close. I did a quick 3-4 mile run out
> and back (helmetless and dressed in shorts, tee-shirt, and Rockport
> casual-dress shoes). Yea-hah. I did a little of everything from 2'
> rock-faced trials climbing to WFO down a flat straight. The bike
> worked pretty good all around - requires a fair amount of clutch work,
> but it's amazing what a new piston will do, and even more amazing what
> 20 pounds of bike feels like. It's faster on top than my 250X, that's
> for sure. I made plans to ride with my son the next day.
>
> That night, I was helping my son change his CR80's handlebars, and was
> trying to force on a seemingly too-tight grip onto the throttle tube -
> I was trying to twist the grip into the correct orientation (facing
> forward - gotta have the logos registered correctly), when the tube
> twisted and collapsed. "Oh shit". I have never seen anything like
> that before. So much for our ride - no way I could replace a throttle
> tube on the 4th of July, if at all locally. I felt like dumpus.
>
> I woke up at 4:30 in the morning with a plan. I went down into the
> garage and made a mandrel out of an old pair of bars and a few layers
> of aluminum tape, so the throttle tube was just about a press-fit. I
> gave the tube a little heat, then jammed the damaged tube onto the
> mandrel and proceeded to continue to heat it with a torch, attempting
> to re-form the memory of the plastic and push out the creases. It
> would've been much easier with a heat gun, but the torch trick
> appeared to work. After getting the tube off of the mandrel - it was
> really stuck when I was done (PB Blaster to the rescue) I reamed the
> inner surface with plumber's emery cloth wrapped around a 7/8" wood
> boring bit. I also made a form out of another old pair of bars with a
> stripe of emery cloth on it; I jammed the tube onto it and twisted -
> worked great to tear off the high spots, but gave me some brutal arm
> pump. I worked the tube with various forms until I was convinced it
> had ample clearance everywhere - actually looser than stock. It felt
> like I was going to collapse the tube again trying to put the new grip
> back on though - it was some kind of firm compound that just didn't
> want to stretch. I tossed that grip and dug one up I had laying
> around that was made of much softer compound. It went on "like a
> glove". Boy's bike back in business, and it was only 10:30am. Whew -
> I did take a break in the middle where I fell asleep on the couch for
> some amount of time, but nothing like putting in a 6 hour day before
> anyone else in the house wakes up for the day.
>
> This is where the magic happens:
>
> http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3065/2638563849_bf581400c1.jpg
>
> My son and I went out to deafen the neighbors on our matching
> obnoxious 2-stinks in the early afternoon. We've been having daily
> monsoons lately, so I knew the woods would be really wet. Sure
> enough, there were puddles galore, but I think the rains have been so
> severe, that the organics have actually washed away (much like the
> $1000 worth of loam I spread two weeks ago - 'nother story), so the
> black sticky glop that is usually everywhere was strangely absent -
> the terrain was primarily a wet sandy loam, lots of exposed rocks and
> roots, and wet leaves. Slippery it was, but not nearly as goopy as
> usual, and LOTS of water.
>
> I really liked riding the 2-stroke tiddler - much more so that I
> expected, actually. It took a little while to get used to the
> characteristic 125 top-only motor, and I'm still not sure where the
> top of the top end is. After a while though, I got used to using the
> 12,000 RPM burst of power to get out of jams, and started having all
> kinds of fun making use of strategic clutch-stabs. Several times I
> got hung up on climbs, getting mired in rocky/rooty obstacles while
> running out of RPMs - I could stab and dump the clutch and make the
> bike just leap straight up and hop right over the whole mess. Now I
> know why folks like stinkwheels so much, although I don't know if I'll
> ever get used to not being able to grunt the front wheel into the air
> with just a throttle twist, unless I'm already in the meat of the
> upper RPM range, at which point I can't keep the front end down on a
> bet. Speaking of clutch stabs, the hydraulic clutch just about makes
> everything else worthwhile - I usually can't operate my clutch hand
> after about 10 miles (and that's on a 4-stroke). The GG requires
> constant clutch work, but my hand didn't even cramp up or go numb once
> for the whole ride! That's a seriously big deal for me.
>
> The bike has a flywheel weight, which I guess makes it spin up a
> little slower than normal - I think I might like it better without one
> - I'll find out if I ever take out my CR. Through the terrain in
> general, I found I had to ride faster than I normally would to make
> the bike work properly, both in the motor and suspension department,
> but it wasn't uncomfortable. I felt faster on the 125, and I could
> really feel the lack of 20 pounds compared to my 250X. I can only
> imagine what my 20 pounds lighter still CR will feel like.
>
> The highlight of the day was when I stopped, and my son pulled up to
> me and pointed to the front of my bike. My radiator shroud was
> missing. Huh, how odd. Shitty GG screws into plastic tank design.
> My son saw the shroud laying in a puddle a short while back on the
> trail and went back and retrieved it for me. Personally, I believe
> that I was going SO fast, that the shroud was simply torn off by the
> wind, at least that's my story and I'm sticking to it. It made a good
> excuse to about face and head back, being that we were already late
> for a BBQ. I strapped the plastic piece on my back and my son and we
> prepared to take off. My son laid his bike over, tacked it up and
> ripped a 180, spraying my bike and boots. Dead man walking. I rode
> up about 20' to a convenient mud puddle, pulled the clutch, tapped the
> rev-limiter and dumped the clutch. I started moving forward about 30
> seconds later. A quarter-mile further, I stopped and my son pulled up
> saying, "Nice - you TOTALLY covered me that time. Even got it in my
> mouth." Heh - taught the boy another valuable life-lesson - never
> ride with your mouth open, especially with someone in front of you on
> a muddy day. Oddly enough, both of use were almost mud-free when we
> got back, thanks to all the puddles we were crashing through the
> entire day.
>
> Anyhow, it was a fun couple of hours, and the duct-tape and baling
> twine special served me well, considering. I don't know how much life
> the bike has left in it (probably not much), but I plan on giving full
> abuse until it's dead.
>
> JayC


Posted by JayC on July 5, 2008, 9:39 pm
> Aren't you supposed to try and stay away from those 12,000 rpm bursts on a
> new piston and ring like on the brand new break in?

Pfft. 5 minutes at idle then a hard run to seat the rings and good to
go.

JayC

Posted by scrape on July 5, 2008, 10:37 pm
wrote:

>You'll never guess what bike I took out for a spirited beat run this
>past weekend:
>
>http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3029/2639382048_e9024a7d85_b.jpg
>
>Oddly enough, I realized the other day that it was the only bike that
>was (almost) in riding condition, since my CR125 still isn't set up,
>and my 250X is unguarded thanks to me losing all of the bash plate
>clamps last time out. The GG's bash plate was off too, and I did try
>to put it on, but after all of about 10 seconds of failing to be able
>to hold the plate up, position the mounting bar, and put the screws in
>at the same time (3 hand job), I got frustrated and decided that going
>plateless was definitely worth the risk.

If you ever head south with that, let me know. I've got a few
places you'd have a blast on it. And there are a couple decent GG
dealers in NC.

We tend to require helmets and such though.

Unless you're on a kWad.


----
Team NCS Off Road
----

Posted by JayC on July 5, 2008, 10:40 pm
> Not much right off idle.
> Usable torque around 4K rpm.
> Very good pull by 5K, but still tame enough to be "easy".
> Wakes up and is seriously on the pipe (with the front wheel getting
> extremely light) by 6K.
> Pulls smooth and strong past the peak power at 11K, all the way to
> the 13K cdi induced cut-out.

That sounds about right, though my midrange power opinion is probably
skewed from riding a 4-stroke all of these years.

> Although it wasn't real strong below 4K rpm, it would lug around on
> flat ground just fine at 2500 to 3K.

Mine is definitely doing all of that - there aren't really any flat
areas though - everything is up or down. I can lug up a reasonably
steep grade in the midrange, but it won't accelerate or lift the front
end w/o a clutch stab. I think its running pretty good overall,
though I think I can get a little more low-mid out of it.

> (With the 168 main jet, I bet that bike
> of yours is seriously lean at WFO, smoke or no smoke. (My 300's
> exhaust puts out serious smoke when the packing catches fire.)

That's what is making this whole exercise so confusing. I know where
the bike is SUPPOSED to be, but this thing seems off the map. Believe
me, I've been very hesitant to go to the lower jets, simply because of
what EVERYBODY says the bike should have in it. That is why I've
asked so many jetting questions, figuring that I was missing something
(and invoking a slew of pejorative comments from others), but I've
worked my way down from a 188 through the 170s and now to the 168. I
thought I was just hitting the rev limiter for the longest time, but I
now that I finally got the bike to rev out, I was nowhere near there
when the bike would go flat before. Even the 168 still feels rich,
not to mention all the smoke. The plug even came out brown. It does
still make me nervous though - I might just do a quickie run-through
of the mains starting at the top again, just as a sanity check.

JayC

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