Posted by Tiago on July 20, 2009, 1:28 pm
This is semi-OT because it is about the car I use to haul the bikes
when needed. It's my only car. Brand and model doesn't matter, but
it's a '01 semi-compact (*) japanese sedan in a version that wasn't
sold in the western world except here and, afaik, it was sold in
Australia and some other Asian markets, perhaps Russia had it, but I
can't confirm that.
Well, coming from the last enduro, everytime when hitting brakes I'd
get that distinct sound that indicates that brake pads' gone, metal
against metal scrapping sound. It got me and my friends worried enough
to the point I stopped to check (as if I would do anything about
it....). Almost 2cm left on the pads, when the service manual states
1mm limit to replace....
This last week the noise was too big to be ignored and I decided to
replace the pads. It was the first pad replacement on a car for me.
It's easier than on bikes, provided you have an easy way to lift the
wheel (I don't) and I wish bikes had the same rubber protection boots
the car has. The noise stopped! It's quiet as it should and braking
much better than any other car I drove, like it was before changing
pads. Is there anything like "too abrasive, too hard" brake pads that
sound like metal against metal? Weird. Asked a professional car
mechanic and he could not give a reasonable explanation. These guys
don't study much past elementary school anyway... Is it possible that
the weight of the full loaded car + trailer + 3 anvil-weight bikes +
my driving style of never pressing hard a control (brake, for
instance) made the pads glaze over and that produced the noise?
Perhaps if I did a few wheel lock ups the noise would go away? The old
pads sure looks glazed.
--- T
(*) probably would qualify as compact in other countries, here, it's
medium-small, but it's pretty cramped on the back seat...
Posted by XR650L_Dave on July 20, 2009, 2:59 pm
> This is semi-OT because it is about the car I use to haul the bikes
> when needed. It's my only car. Brand and model doesn't matter, but
> it's a '01 semi-compact (*) japanese sedan in a version that wasn't
> sold in the western world except here and, afaik, it was sold in
> Australia and some other Asian markets, perhaps Russia had it, but I
> can't confirm that.
> Well, coming from the last enduro, everytime when hitting brakes I'd
> get that distinct sound that indicates that brake pads' gone, metal
> against metal scrapping sound. It got me and my friends worried enough
> to the point I stopped to check (as if I would do anything about
> it....). Almost 2cm left on the pads, when the service manual states
> 1mm limit to replace....
> This last week the noise was too big to be ignored and I decided to
> replace the pads. It was the first pad replacement on a car for me.
> It's easier than on bikes, provided you have an easy way to lift the
> wheel (I don't) and I wish bikes had the same rubber protection boots
> the car has. The noise stopped! It's quiet as it should and braking
> much better than any other car I drove, like it was before changing
> pads. Is there anything like "too abrasive, too hard" brake pads that
> sound like metal against metal? Weird. Asked a professional car
> mechanic and he could not give a reasonable explanation. These guys
> don't study much past elementary school anyway... Is it possible that
> the weight of the full loaded car + trailer + 3 anvil-weight bikes +
> my driving style of never pressing hard a control (brake, for
> instance) made the pads glaze over and that produced the noise?
> Perhaps if I did a few wheel lock ups the noise would go away? The old
> pads sure looks glazed.
> --- T
> (*) probably would qualify as compact in other countries, here, it's
> medium-small, but it's pretty cramped on the back seat...
I think you nailed it right out of the gate...
Glazed pads would indeed sound a lot like metal-on-metal, as would a
buildup of rust on part of the rotor surface where the pads rub.
If you want to check, dig into one of the old pads with a pointy
screwdriver or an awl, if the surface is hard to dig into, but then
you pry up a bit of the surface and then it's easy to dig into the
surface underneath, it's glazed over. Be careful as pads in Brazil may
still use asbestos.
Once glazed over, the only way to break the glaze, usually, is to sand
it. Messy and dangerous if asbestos is still used, and even if they
don't use asbestos, who knows what they replaced it with.
Just don't jack up the car like this guy:
http://thereifixedit.com/2009/07/17/epic-kludge-photo-insurance-claim-in-32=
1/
Dave
Posted by Tiago on July 20, 2009, 3:34 pm
> I think you nailed it right out of the gate...
> Glazed pads would indeed sound a lot like metal-on-metal, as would a
> buildup of rust on part of the rotor surface where the pads rub.
Hmmm, that's interesting.
> If you want to check, dig into one of the old pads with a pointy
> screwdriver or an awl, if the surface is hard to dig into, but then
> you pry up a bit of the surface and then it's easy to dig into the
> surface underneath, it's glazed over. Be careful as pads in Brazil may
> still use asbestos.
Nope, asbestos was outlawed a loooong time ago. Brazil have a tendency
of outlawing polluting/hazardous stuff before other countries do. Not
getting into politics, but we were one the first countries in world to
get rid of leaded gasoline. Our emission rules for motorcycles are
much stricter yours: I can't buy a bike with an engine over 125cc with
carburetor anymore. If you think a substance could be outlawed because
it's risky to health or polluting, odds are that we outlawed it
loooooooong ago. I think politicians do it so they don't look so bad
for the international eyes over the amazon thing...
Will try the digging. I am sure it's glazed, it looks like a dull
mirror, I'm sure it's not supposed to look like that...
> Once glazed over, the only way to break the glaze, usually, is to sand
> it. Messy and dangerous if asbestos is still used, and even if they
> don't use asbestos, who knows what they replaced it with.
Ok, so I have to start braking harder now. Dang, I drive a car
completely different than I ride a bike: saving it so it lasts for
ever. Brake pads, like everything else designed by Japanese, are much
more expensive than the German (VW), American (GM, Ford) and Italian
(Fiat) designs...
The thing that replaced asbestos on brake pads makes a black dust that
clings to the wheel. I'm sure that's not (too) harmful, but sanding
the pad could produce a dust cloud, that can't be good for one's
health... I could always use those face masks they're handing out
because of the swine flu...
> Just don't jack up the car like this guy:http://thereifixedit.com/2009/07/17/epic-kludge-photo-insurance-claim ...
oh shit! :-) Hey, he's welding something right beside the fuel tank! I
wonder if that's clean and free of flammable liquids...
I used the jack that comes with the car. Not the wiser move, I know...
There is a movie faces of death, iirc, that one of the episodes show a
guy working under a car when it falls from the jack and the brake disk
severs his leg and he dies from the bleeding... I watched those movies
when I was a teen and kept remembering the gross images while
replacing the pads and that remembered me to avoid keep any body part
under the car...
-- T
Posted by XR650L_Dave on July 20, 2009, 4:25 pm
> > I think you nailed it right out of the gate...
> > Glazed pads would indeed sound a lot like metal-on-metal, as would a
> > buildup of rust on part of the rotor surface where the pads rub.
> Hmmm, that's interesting.
> > If you want to check, dig into one of the old pads with a pointy
> > screwdriver or an awl, if the surface is hard to dig into, but then
> > you pry up a bit of the surface and then it's easy to dig into the
> > surface underneath, it's glazed over. Be careful as pads in Brazil may
> > still use asbestos.
> Nope, asbestos was outlawed a loooong time ago. Brazil have a tendency
> of outlawing polluting/hazardous stuff before other countries do. Not
> getting into politics, but we were one the first countries in world to
> get rid of leaded gasoline. Our emission rules for motorcycles are
> much stricter yours: I can't buy a bike with an engine over 125cc with
> carburetor anymore. If you think a substance could be outlawed because
> it's risky to health or polluting, odds are that we outlawed it
> loooooooong ago. I think politicians do it so they don't look so bad
> for the international eyes over the amazon thing...
> Will try the digging. I am sure it's glazed, it looks like a dull
> mirror, I'm sure it's not supposed to look like that...
> > Once glazed over, the only way to break the glaze, usually, is to sand
> > it. Messy and dangerous if asbestos is still used, and even if they
> > don't use asbestos, who knows what they replaced it with.
> Ok, so I have to start braking harder now. Dang, I drive a car
> completely different than I ride a bike: saving it so it lasts for
> ever. Brake pads, like everything else designed by Japanese, are much
> more expensive than the German (VW), American (GM, Ford) and Italian
> (Fiat) designs...
> The thing that replaced asbestos on brake pads makes a black dust that
> clings to the wheel. I'm sure that's not (too) harmful, but sanding
> the pad could produce a dust cloud, that can't be good for one's
> health... I could always use those face masks they're handing out
> because of the swine flu...
> > Just don't jack up the car like this guy:http://thereifixedit.com/2009/07/17/epic-kludge-photo-insurance-claim ...
> oh shit! :-) Hey, he's welding something right beside the fuel tank! I
> wonder if that's clean and free of flammable liquids...
> I used the jack that comes with the car. Not the wiser move, I know...
> There is a movie faces of death, iirc, that one of the episodes show a
> guy working under a car when it falls from the jack and the brake disk
> severs his leg and he dies from the bleeding... I watched those movies
> when I was a teen and kept remembering the gross images while
> replacing the pads and that remembered me to avoid keep any body part
> under the car...
> -- T
Ah yes, I remember faces-of-death, if I'm ever doing something and
that movie comes to mind I realize I'm about to do something stupid...
If you did sand them, you could use wet sandpaper and do it wet...
Dave
Posted by HellSickle on July 21, 2009, 1:00 pm
Oh to be young and naive....
I was driving with my 19YO daughter last night. We had checked her rear
brakes a few weeks ago because of a squealing complaint. She was shocked to
find out that cars also have front brakes :-O Looks like we will be
spending more time doing PM/education on her Saturn.
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> when needed. It's my only car. Brand and model doesn't matter, but
> it's a '01 semi-compact (*) japanese sedan in a version that wasn't
> sold in the western world except here and, afaik, it was sold in
> Australia and some other Asian markets, perhaps Russia had it, but I
> can't confirm that.
> Well, coming from the last enduro, everytime when hitting brakes I'd
> get that distinct sound that indicates that brake pads' gone, metal
> against metal scrapping sound. It got me and my friends worried enough
> to the point I stopped to check (as if I would do anything about
> it....). Almost 2cm left on the pads, when the service manual states
> 1mm limit to replace....
> This last week the noise was too big to be ignored and I decided to
> replace the pads. It was the first pad replacement on a car for me.
> It's easier than on bikes, provided you have an easy way to lift the
> wheel (I don't) and I wish bikes had the same rubber protection boots
> the car has. The noise stopped! It's quiet as it should and braking
> much better than any other car I drove, like it was before changing
> pads. Is there anything like "too abrasive, too hard" brake pads that
> sound like metal against metal? Weird. Asked a professional car
> mechanic and he could not give a reasonable explanation. These guys
> don't study much past elementary school anyway... Is it possible that
> the weight of the full loaded car + trailer + 3 anvil-weight bikes +
> my driving style of never pressing hard a control (brake, for
> instance) made the pads glaze over and that produced the noise?
> Perhaps if I did a few wheel lock ups the noise would go away? The old
> pads sure looks glazed.
> --- T
> (*) probably would qualify as compact in other countries, here, it's
> medium-small, but it's pretty cramped on the back seat...