Posted by JayC on November 16, 2009, 4:42 pm
'Jayrassic Park East, Fortress of Solitude' has a dug well w/
(malfunctioning) jet-pump system. The pump is short-cycling between
25 and 40 PSI, according to the pump-mounted gauge. The pressure
increases rapidly, with pump on-time only a couple of seconds.
Pressure 'bleeds' back down once the pump kicks off in 5 seconds or
so. I figured that the pressure tank (external) must be waterlogged,
but gave it the 'knock test' and it appears to be fine, with the air/
water line halfway up or so.
While I've owned (and replaced) a number of well systems in the past,
jet pump systems are new to me and this simple issue has me clueless.
Before I blindly tear out and replace the whole system (with a
salvaged CR500 motor), I figured I'd see if anyone in here might know
something of use.
Any help with diagnosis (or an outright fix) would be greatly
appreciated.
JayC
Posted by I am Tosk on November 17, 2009, 2:04 am
In article <94e43942-6a67-4dba-b4f8-3ead6f8d9101@
31g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>, jwc@sysmatrix.net says...
>
> 'Jayrassic Park East, Fortress of Solitude' has a dug well w/
> (malfunctioning) jet-pump system. The pump is short-cycling between
> 25 and 40 PSI, according to the pump-mounted gauge. The pressure
> increases rapidly, with pump on-time only a couple of seconds.
> Pressure 'bleeds' back down once the pump kicks off in 5 seconds or
> so. I figured that the pressure tank (external) must be waterlogged,
> but gave it the 'knock test' and it appears to be fine, with the air/
> water line halfway up or so.
>
> While I've owned (and replaced) a number of well systems in the past,
> jet pump systems are new to me and this simple issue has me clueless.
> Before I blindly tear out and replace the whole system (with a
> salvaged CR500 motor), I figured I'd see if anyone in here might know
> something of use.
>
> Any help with diagnosis (or an outright fix) would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
> JayC
The pump is probably bleeding back down the line.. Try putting in a one
way valve right in front of the pump.. I forget what they call it, but I
did one for an old pump of mine several years ago... Keeps the pump from
loosing pressure as the water seeps back down to the well...
Posted by Wudsracer on November 17, 2009, 1:03 am
wrote:
>In article <94e43942-6a67-4dba-b4f8-3ead6f8d9101@
>31g2000vbf.googlegroups.com>, jwc@sysmatrix.net says...
>>
>> 'Jayrassic Park East, Fortress of Solitude' has a dug well w/
>> (malfunctioning) jet-pump system. The pump is short-cycling between
>> 25 and 40 PSI, according to the pump-mounted gauge. The pressure
>> increases rapidly, with pump on-time only a couple of seconds.
>> Pressure 'bleeds' back down once the pump kicks off in 5 seconds or
>> so. I figured that the pressure tank (external) must be waterlogged,
>> but gave it the 'knock test' and it appears to be fine, with the air/
>> water line halfway up or so.
>>
>> While I've owned (and replaced) a number of well systems in the past,
>> jet pump systems are new to me and this simple issue has me clueless.
>> Before I blindly tear out and replace the whole system (with a
>> salvaged CR500 motor), I figured I'd see if anyone in here might know
>> something of use.
>>
>> Any help with diagnosis (or an outright fix) would be greatly
>> appreciated.
>>
>> JayC
>The pump is probably bleeding back down the line.. Try putting in a one
>way valve right in front of the pump.. I forget what they call it, but I
>did one for an old pump of mine several years ago... Keeps the pump from
>loosing pressure as the water seeps back down to the well...
********************************************
If the water is seeping back down the well, you have a malfunctioning
foot valve.
Jay,
If everything is right with the pump and pressure tank, the problem
is going to be a small leak somewhere.
Isolate the line leaving the pump with a valve, to test for this.
(and to isolate the problem and tune your air volume/air pressure in
the tank) Then, fine tune the air levels in the pressure tank to
maximize the time (and maximize the volume of fluid pumped) between
the pump's cycling. You will need a faucet or valve to discharge the
water for this test, in addition to the valve which shuts off the line
from the well pump to where-ever it's normally pumped.
Most of the time, any problem with a jet pump is either a leak in
the discharge line, a leak in the lines going down and back up the
well bore, or a problem with the foot valve. (mud or scale)
Jim
Wudsracer/Jim Cook
Smackover Racing
'06 Gas Gas DE300
'82 Husqvarna XC250
Team LAGNAF
Posted by Dean H on November 17, 2009, 8:55 am
> If the water is seeping back down the well, you have a malfunctioning
> foot valve.
> Jay,
> If everything is right with the pump and pressure tank, the problem
> is going to be a small leak somewhere.
> Isolate the line leaving the pump with a valve, to test for this.
> (and to isolate the problem and tune your air volume/air pressure in
> the tank) Then, fine tune the air levels in the pressure tank to
> maximize the time (and maximize the volume of fluid pumped) between
> the pump's cycling. You will need a faucet or valve to discharge the
> water for this test, in addition to the valve which shuts off the line
> from the well pump to where-ever it's normally pumped.
> Most of the time, any problem with a jet pump is either a leak in
> the discharge line, a leak in the lines going down and back up the
> well bore, or a problem with the foot valve. (mud or scale)
> Jim
Jim is correct, I'd say, at first thought.
But then, ...
I worked on residential wells for about a year durring my brief stint
as a college drop out.
You say this is a "dug well" so I'm guessing this is a shallow well?
Shallow Well:
From a jet pump's perspective, a shallow well has only one pipe going
down the well. The venturi device (jet) is on the face of the pump in
this case, and the foot valve is down there near the bottom with a
screened check valve keeping the pipe full (primed).
Deep Well:
If it's deeper than X feet (I forget, I want to say 35 feet) then you
will be sporting two pipes (1 1/2 down and 2 inch back up) going down
the well to the venturi device. Then the jet has a tailpiece hanging
with the check valve at the bottom. If you are pulling a deep well,
you might want to plumb with a fishing weight to see how deep you are
dealing with. Two pipes full of water that are 200 feet deep is pretty
damned heavy even for two men when the pipe is all slippery with iron
deposits...
they have power tools for that now...
that'll make you want to go back to college. LOL
But maybe you don't have to pull it...
I'm thinking that a leak between house and well might cause the same
symptoms... probably on the pressure side. Is it easy to get at the
well head? I think we had a little rig with a schrader valve and a
pressure gauge to test for leaks. I think you could noodle out how to
test between house and well. It might be good to rule that out.
Obviously, if it's a deep well and one is leaking, replace them both.
You should also be able to pressure test the foot valve, methix.
HTH,
Dean
Posted by I am Tosk on November 17, 2009, 12:22 pm
In article <7337670e-a384-4bd6-b494-f8938f23b685
@j4g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>, dfhyman@optonline.net says...
>
> > If the water is seeping back down the well, you have a malfunctioning
> > foot valve.
> >
> > Jay,
> > If everything is right with the pump and pressure tank, the problem
> > is going to be a small leak somewhere.
> > Isolate the line leaving the pump with a valve, to test for this.
> > (and to isolate the problem and tune your air volume/air pressure in
> > the tank) Then, fine tune the air levels in the pressure tank to
> > maximize the time (and maximize the volume of fluid pumped) between
> > the pump's cycling. You will need a faucet or valve to discharge the
> > water for this test, in addition to the valve which shuts off the line
> > from the well pump to where-ever it's normally pumped.
> >
> > Most of the time, any problem with a jet pump is either a leak in
> > the discharge line, a leak in the lines going down and back up the
> > well bore, or a problem with the foot valve. (mud or scale)
> >
> > Jim
>
> Jim is correct, I'd say, at first thought.
> But then, ...
>
> I worked on residential wells for about a year durring my brief stint
> as a college drop out.
>
> You say this is a "dug well" so I'm guessing this is a shallow well?
>
> Shallow Well:
> From a jet pump's perspective, a shallow well has only one pipe going
> down the well. The venturi device (jet) is on the face of the pump in
> this case, and the foot valve is down there near the bottom with a
> screened check valve keeping the pipe full (primed).
>
> Deep Well:
> If it's deeper than X feet (I forget, I want to say 35 feet) then you
> will be sporting two pipes (1 1/2 down and 2 inch back up) going down
> the well to the venturi device. Then the jet has a tailpiece hanging
> with the check valve at the bottom. If you are pulling a deep well,
> you might want to plumb with a fishing weight to see how deep you are
> dealing with. Two pipes full of water that are 200 feet deep is pretty
> damned heavy even for two men when the pipe is all slippery with iron
> deposits...
> they have power tools for that now...
>
> that'll make you want to go back to college. LOL
>
> But maybe you don't have to pull it...
>
> I'm thinking that a leak between house and well might cause the same
> symptoms... probably on the pressure side. Is it easy to get at the
> well head? I think we had a little rig with a schrader valve and a
> pressure gauge to test for leaks. I think you could noodle out how to
> test between house and well. It might be good to rule that out.
> Obviously, if it's a deep well and one is leaking, replace them both.
>
> You should also be able to pressure test the foot valve, methix.
>
> HTH,
> Dean
Yes, the foot valve.. In our dug well on the shoreline we blew a foot
valve. Didn't want to dig it up right then so I put a one way valve
right in line with the pump in the basement. That solved our problem.
RMR..
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> 'Jayrassic Park East, Fortress of Solitude' has a dug well w/
> (malfunctioning) jet-pump system. The pump is short-cycling between
> 25 and 40 PSI, according to the pump-mounted gauge. The pressure
> increases rapidly, with pump on-time only a couple of seconds.
> Pressure 'bleeds' back down once the pump kicks off in 5 seconds or
> so. I figured that the pressure tank (external) must be waterlogged,
> but gave it the 'knock test' and it appears to be fine, with the air/
> water line halfway up or so.
>
> While I've owned (and replaced) a number of well systems in the past,
> jet pump systems are new to me and this simple issue has me clueless.
> Before I blindly tear out and replace the whole system (with a
> salvaged CR500 motor), I figured I'd see if anyone in here might know
> something of use.
>
> Any help with diagnosis (or an outright fix) would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
> JayC