Posted by Rowdy on April 26, 2011, 1:14 pm
ok I was optimistic. I researched the 2003 WR250F outer fork tube
part number and compared it to the 2003 wr450f's and they are
the same. The top triple clamps are the same part# as well.
I concluded same fork = same triple clamp dimensions and got me
a triple clamp clearout '03 WR350F, because the dealer didn't
list the '03 WR450F explicitly, thinking they will work. I figured
a sale item, maybe they didn't know both fronts are identical.
Now in the process of ha*§³$&*ing the lower bearing race in place
I get the feeling the stem might be to short...
questions:
- is the wr450f t-clamp stem longer than in a wr250f?
- if so, to an extent that makes a 250f stem effectively
unmountable in a 450 frame?
- how on earth do I get the outer race of the lower
tapered bearing into the frame?
(I did heat up the steering head to untouchable temps and
still could not get the race to seat)
- as a last chance maneuver: can I let a shop press in the
250f stem a little further into the bottom clamp, so it
protrudes enough on top to make the nut see some threads?
- if no, are stems interchangable? e.g. could it work to
take the genuine 450f stem and have a shop press it out
of the stocker and into the new bottm clamp?
Rowdy, desperate as ever
Posted by JayC on April 26, 2011, 1:40 pm
> questions:
> - is the wr450f t-clamp stem longer than in a wr250f?
Looks like the answer is yes. I think you're screwed.
http://appliedrace.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3_15=
&products_id=1316
http://appliedrace.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3_15=
&products_id=1315
> - if so, to an extent that makes a 250f stem effectively
> unmountable in a 450 frame?
The area machines for the bearings won't line up, or you won't have
any threads sticking out to bolt down your top clamp. Or (probably)
both.
> - how on earth do I get the outer race of the lower
> tapered bearing into the frame?
> (I did heat up the steering head to untouchable temps and
> still could not get the race to seat)
BFH. I have NEVER had heat/cooling help seat a bearing race.
Ridiculous concept really - ever seen the heat-transfer specs of
steel? Like the two pieces are actually going to stay different temps
for more than a second...right. Get a hardwood block and a 5# sledge
and go to town. Last one I did (GG 125) I think I used C-clamps to
get it all lined up, then I beat the shit out of it.
> - as a last chance maneuver: can I let a shop press in the
> 250f stem a little further into the bottom clamp, so it
> protrudes enough on top to make the nut see some threads?
No, the stem seats under the clamp - there is no "little further". I
suppose you could have the rim around the bottom machined down to make
it thinner, but I don't think you'd pick up a whole lot - maybe 1/8".
> - if no, are stems interchangable? e.g. could it work to
> take the genuine 450f stem and have a shop press it out
> of the stocker and into the new bottm clamp?
Hmmm...good question. If the bottom clamp holes are the same
diameter, you could surely swap clamps. It is super-easy to do that
with a press, BTW - don't need no stinkin' machine shop.
Incidentally, you could always just buy the YZ-Long stem from Applied
that I found for ya.
JayC
Posted by Tiago on April 26, 2011, 1:51 pm
> > - if no, are stems interchangable? e.g. could it work to
> > take the genuine 450f stem and have a shop press it out
> > of the stocker and into the new bottm clamp?
> Hmmm...good question. If the bottom clamp holes are the same
> diameter, you could surely swap clamps. It is super-easy to do that
> with a press, BTW - don't need no stinkin' machine shop.
people around here swap stems all the time. It's the best cost-
effective way to tune a dual sport bike suspension and make it a
serious off road suspension: start with a XR and get a complete CR
front end and swap the stem. Lots of friends did it with no problems
whatsoever.
-- Tiago
Posted by Rowdy on April 26, 2011, 4:38 pm
Am 26.04.2011 19:40, schrieb JayC:
> I think you're screwed.
I fully conclude.
> The area machines for the bearings won't line up, or you won't have
> any threads sticking out to bolt down your top clamp. Or (probably)
> both.
That "nothing sticking out" issue was what alerted me/ruined my day.
> BFH. I have NEVER had heat/cooling help seat a bearing race.
> Ridiculous concept really - ever seen the heat-transfer specs of
> steel? Like the two pieces are actually going to stay different temps
> for more than a second...right. Get a hardwood block and a 5# sledge
> and go to town. Last one I did (GG 125) I think I used C-clamps to
> get it all lined up, then I beat the shit out of it.
Well, for assembly "part A frozen and part B hot" does work very
nicely, for disassembly I'm on your side. I didn't even bother to
heat up the still seated bearing race, instead I picked up a broken
torque wrench (no, you don't want to know) and hammered away at
the race from the other side. *ca-chink*
> No, the stem seats under the clamp - there is no "little further".
'kay, option crossed out.
>> - if no, are stems interchangable? e.g. could it work to
>> take the genuine 450f stem and have a shop press it out
>> of the stocker and into the new bottm clamp?
> Hmmm...good question. If the bottom clamp holes are the same
> diameter, you could surely swap clamps. It is super-easy to do that
> with a press, BTW - don't need no stinkin' machine shop.
Well, I don't have a press, let alone suitable pieces to mount
that thing adequately.
> Incidentally, you could always just buy the YZ-Long stem from Applied
> that I found for ya.
Hmm, if stems are interchangeable between Applied/OEM and noname "Scar".
The nasty part is that to find out if there aren't enough treads
sticking out the top I have to seat the new lower bearing's race first.
I got me an after market set of tapered bearings as I correctly
anticipated that I will not have a slightest clue how to get
the lower bearing off the stem w/o damaging either. (I'm convinced
that this can't be done, stem life = lower bearing life)
And I furthermore assume that the race of tapered bearing A will not
necessarily work with rest of bearing B, even while both have to comply
with industry standard ID, OD and height, they are free to come up with
slightly differen internal tapers, right?
So I could
1) remount the old lower race and go with stock stem and lower clamp
or
2) try and seat new bearing, try and find some threads on top
for the nut, add top clamp plus outer nut and be happy
or else have to hammer out the new lower race again and
proceed at 1)
Given that it's 10:30 PM now I'll rest my case till tomorrow.
but thanks for the feedback
and research
Rowdy
Posted by Volker Bartheld on April 27, 2011, 4:23 am
Hi!
On Tue, 26 Apr 2011 22:38:32 +0200, Rowdy wrote:
> Well, for assembly "part A frozen and part B hot" does work very
> nicely,
As long as the temperature diff makes for enough loose fit (hint: thermal
expansion coefficient) that you can fully (and I mean FULLY) seat the part
before the heat-transfer coefficient takes its toll. So: For mounting
crankshaft bearings etc. in a CR250R's engine case, this worked
exceptionally well in my case. Also wheel bearings went in rather quickly.
But for steering stem bearings, I was totally lost. No f*cking way.
>> Hmmm...good question. If the bottom clamp holes are the same
>> diameter, you could surely swap clamps. It is super-easy to do that
>> with a press, BTW - don't need no stinkin' machine shop.
> Well, I don't have a press, let alone suitable pieces to mount
> that thing adequately.
Interestingly enough, you can make this kind of "press" out of any el
cheapo chinese hydraulic car-jack with the help of a welder and a few steel
tubes, sheet metal or whatever is available.
> I got me an after market set of tapered bearings as I correctly
> anticipated that I will not have a slightest clue how to get
> the lower bearing off the stem w/o damaging either.
The bearing itself is toast as soon as you have removed it. You can use a
hydraulic press to remove stem incl. bearing altogether, but you need to
support the inner race which can be problematic.
I cut off the bearing with a dremel/diamond cutting wheel. Stearing stem
stayed intact. It took a while.
> And I furthermore assume that the race of tapered bearing A will not
> necessarily work with rest of bearing B, even while both have to comply
> with industry standard ID, OD and height, they are free to come up with
> slightly differen internal tapers, right?
Normally, bearings come in a set: Inner race, pins and outer race. The
parts might be interchangeable between different brands (or even the same
brand) but there's no guarantee. I wouldn't do that.
Cheers,
Volker
--
@: I N F O at B A R T H E L D dot N E T
3W: www.bartheld.net
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> - is the wr450f t-clamp stem longer than in a wr250f?