Posted by Julian Bond on October 27, 2008, 8:23 am
AMA Pro Racing finally releases the rules package and it's pretty much
where you might have expected it to end up if you'd guessed in Feb. So
all that heartache and messing around was for nothing.
Superbike: Very close to WSB but:-
- Without the ongoing adjustments to Twins
- With 2008 style BSB restrictions on cranks/conrods/pistons; All stock.
- With modified stock forks rather than free replacements
- With stock gearbox
- With Dunlop spec tyres
- Same cam limits. stock lift/free duration.
So. A bit cheaper due to the gearbox and forks. A bit more expensive if
stock cranks/rods/pistons means more rebuilds to make sure they survive.
Performance should be close to the same as now and close to WSB/BSB
Daytona Sportbike.
- The expected mix of Aprilia RSV, BMW HP2 Sport, Buell 1125R, Ducati
848, Honda CBR600RR, Kawasaki Ninja ZX-6R, KTM Super Duke, Suzuki
GSX-R600, Triumph Daytona 675, Yamaha YZF-R6.
- Maybe I missed it but I can't see any reference to horsepower
checking. With cams, valves, head all stock with no modifications
allowed it's hard to see where any tuning is going come from apart from
a pipe and power commander. Which probably means a single machine will
dominate.
Supersports.
- Daytona Sportbike with an age limit on the rider. Other wise I can't
see any difference
And then there's Moto-GT. With a horsepower limit and very little said
about what you can change in the engine.
And of course the fly in the ointment. "Aftermarket parts and equipment
must be approved by AMA Pro Racing and must appear on the Eligible
Equipment List before being used in competition. Each company with
approved equipment must post bonus awards for those products." Which
apparently applies to all classes. With the relatively free spec in
Superbike, you have to wonder how the hell that will work.
---
Hard to find anything about homologation on Superbike. It's just
different enough from BSB/WSB and with Dunlop tyres there's not much
hope of wild cards at the WSB round(s) in North America. Or any cross
over and tuning info from other national teams or the factories.
I don't know. Still looks like a mess to me. And its still not clear
who's actually going to go racing. Will Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki/Kawasaki
field teams in Superbike? How about DSB?
--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
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Posted by T3 on October 27, 2008, 10:10 am
> AMA Pro Racing finally releases the rules package and it's pretty much
> where you might have expected it to end up if you'd guessed in Feb. So
> all that heartache and messing around was for nothing.
Personalities and posturing aside, I believe the economy, or lack of
it, drove the sides together, albeit grudgingly..
>
> Superbike: Very close to WSB but:-
> - Without the ongoing adjustments to Twins
> - With 2008 style BSB restrictions on cranks/conrods/pistons; All stock.
> - With modified stock forks rather than free replacements
> - With stock gearbox
> - With Dunlop spec tyres
> - Same cam limits. stock lift/free duration.
> So. A bit cheaper due to the gearbox and forks. A bit more expensive if
> stock cranks/rods/pistons means more rebuilds to make sure they survive.
> Performance should be close to the same as now and close to WSB/BSB
>
> Daytona Sportbike.
> - The expected mix of Aprilia RSV, BMW HP2 Sport, Buell 1125R, Ducati
> 848, Honda CBR600RR, Kawasaki Ninja ZX-6R, KTM Super Duke, Suzuki
> GSX-R600, Triumph Daytona 675, Yamaha YZF-R6.
> - Maybe I missed it but I can't see any reference to horsepower
> checking. With cams, valves, head all stock with no modifications
> allowed it's hard to see where any tuning is going come from apart from
> a pipe and power commander. Which probably means a single machine will
> dominate.
>
> Supersports.
> - Daytona Sportbike with an age limit on the rider. Other wise I can't
> see any difference
>
> And then there's Moto-GT. With a horsepower limit and very little said
> about what you can change in the engine.
>
> And of course the fly in the ointment. "Aftermarket parts and equipment
> must be approved by AMA Pro Racing and must appear on the Eligible
> Equipment List before being used in competition. Each company with
> approved equipment must post bonus awards for those products." Which
> apparently applies to all classes. With the relatively free spec in
> Superbike, you have to wonder how the hell that will work.
>
> ---
>
> Hard to find anything about homologation on Superbike. It's just
> different enough from BSB/WSB and with Dunlop tyres there's not much
> hope of wild cards at the WSB round(s) in North America. Or any cross
> over and tuning info from other national teams or the factories.
>
> I don't know. Still looks like a mess to me. And its still not clear
> who's actually going to go racing. Will Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki/Kawasaki
> field teams in Superbike? How about DSB?
I saw no mention of the Red Bull thing either.
I'm told these rules are "in transit" and there will be a major push to
for a universal set for all national series through the FIM and if this
deal is any indicator that should be very "interesting," to say the
least...
Posted by Mark N on October 27, 2008, 10:22 am
Julian Bond wrote:
> AMA Pro Racing finally releases the rules package and it's pretty much
> where you might have expected it to end up if you'd guessed in Feb.
Hah! Not me...
> So
> all that heartache and messing around was for nothing.
Well, it certainly wasn't the birth agony of a beautiful baby...
> Superbike: Very close to WSB but:-
> - Without the ongoing adjustments to Twins
> - With 2008 style BSB restrictions on cranks/conrods/pistons; All stock.
> - With modified stock forks rather than free replacements
> - With stock gearbox
> - With Dunlop spec tyres
> - Same cam limits. stock lift/free duration.
> So. A bit cheaper due to the gearbox and forks. A bit more expensive if
> stock cranks/rods/pistons means more rebuilds to make sure they survive.
> Performance should be close to the same as now and close to WSB/BSB
>
> Daytona Sportbike.
> - The expected mix of Aprilia RSV, BMW HP2 Sport, Buell 1125R, Ducati
> 848, Honda CBR600RR, Kawasaki Ninja ZX-6R, KTM Super Duke, Suzuki
> GSX-R600, Triumph Daytona 675, Yamaha YZF-R6.
> - Maybe I missed it but I can't see any reference to horsepower
> checking. With cams, valves, head all stock with no modifications
> allowed it's hard to see where any tuning is going come from apart from
> a pipe and power commander. Which probably means a single machine will
> dominate.
Weight is the assumption - instead of creating a hard horsepower/weight
ratio it will be more fluid, DMG jiggering minimum weights based on what
they guess will be the power differences, and then adjusting from there
based on their competitiveness caveat. So the Japanese OEMs can build
tothe rules on power, but won't necessarily reap the benefits of lighter
weight, unlike SS today. The initial weight minimum numbers should be
interesting.
> Supersports.
> - Daytona Sportbike with an age limit on the rider. Other wise I can't
> see any difference
I haven't worked through all the details, but surely SS allows fewer mods?
> And then there's Moto-GT. With a horsepower limit and very little said
> about what you can change in the engine.
>
> And of course the fly in the ointment. "Aftermarket parts and equipment
> must be approved by AMA Pro Racing and must appear on the Eligible
> Equipment List before being used in competition. Each company with
> approved equipment must post bonus awards for those products." Which
> apparently applies to all classes. With the relatively free spec in
> Superbike, you have to wonder how the hell that will work.
If you read the specifics published so far, they don't apply the EEL to
too many parts in ASB, and the final rules will have to be specific on
that. For instance, fasteners and the like can't be EEL items, but fork
kits and swingarms are specifically cited, and shocks and exhausts not.
But DSB has many more EEL cites than in the ASB rules.
> Hard to find anything about homologation on Superbike. It's just
> different enough from BSB/WSB and with Dunlop tyres there's not much
> hope of wild cards at the WSB round(s) in North America. Or any cross
> over and tuning info from other national teams or the factories.
>
> I don't know. Still looks like a mess to me.
Well, it IS a mess. It makes the true premier class much less clear than
in the old AMA (where I really don't think there was any question at
all), it doesn't solve the "Daytona problem", it muddies the water even
more with regard to class differences/distinctions (try explaining this
to a neophyte), and it bears no resemblance to what they run elsewhere.
> And its still not clear
> who's actually going to go racing. Will Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki/Kawasaki
> field teams in Superbike? How about DSB?
My guess is that the factories will cut back notably, because of what a
protracted mess this has been and because of the economy. They will
continue to sponsor races, which was the big issue at the end, but teams
might not amount to much. To the extent they do race it'll be in ASB for
sure, and DSB possibly - they fought awfully hard for some sort of
literbike SB class and a dyno-less 600 class, and these are that, sort
of. But they also got 600s shoved into three classes, so maybe they'll
just let sheer numbers do the trick.
What I think we'll see this year is something that looks like a cross
between a true professional championship and a national club series, and
a lot of people just trying to find their way. I can't see SS working,
not without a big sponsor like Red Bull helping fund the riders. Not
sure who will be very interested in MOTO-GT, given that it's only
part-time. And in ASB and DSB the Japanese factories will be watching
DMG very closely, to see if the obvious tendency to screw the Japanese
in the process almost to the end will remain in the way they flex their
power regarding juggling the rules to enhance competitiveness.
Posted by Andrew on October 27, 2008, 6:04 pm
> AMA Pro Racing finally releases the rules package and it's pretty much
> where you might have expected it to end up if you'd guessed in Feb. So all
> that heartache and messing around was for nothing.
> Superbike: Very close to WSB but:-
> - Without the ongoing adjustments to Twins
From what I read Twins would have 15lb lower minimum weight.
I don't think that makes up for the displacement difference in SBK, but it
is something.
--
Andrew
00 Daytona
00 Speed Triple
71 Kawi H1
05 Kiddo
Posted by Julian Bond on October 27, 2008, 6:46 pm
15:04:10
>> AMA Pro Racing finally releases the rules package and it's pretty
>>much where you might have expected it to end up if you'd guessed in
>>Feb. So all that heartache and messing around was for nothing.
>>
>> Superbike: Very close to WSB but:-
>> - Without the ongoing adjustments to Twins
>From what I read Twins would have 15lb lower minimum weight.
>I don't think that makes up for the displacement difference in SBK, but
>it is something.
I think it's 15lb *more* weight for twins. But WSB has a complicated
adjustment process based on average points over groups of 3 races. If
the twins get too fast they add weight and then restrict intakes. If
they're not fast enough, they lose weight.
In WSB they didn't have to use it. In BSB, they added 5 kilos once.
So why doesn't the US use kilos for their race regs?
--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat
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> where you might have expected it to end up if you'd guessed in Feb. So
> all that heartache and messing around was for nothing.