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Posted by Mark N on March 10, 2008, 12:32 am
Even though this weekend was the official start to the big-time racing
season, normally cause for pure joy, this one ended up giving me a
certain wistful feeling. That's because in the midst of this spring
rebirth of racing there was a pall of death of the real thing hanging in
the air.
First it was the announcement that the AMA had done the expected,
effectively selling off the series to Nascar, the godfathers of
manufactured competitiveness. The possibilities are almost endless, but
the one thing that doesn't quite seem even remotely possible is that
American racing will end up looking much like the racing in WSB, BSB,
JSB or any other SB-based series anywhere in the world. These guys have
their own ideas, and they don't take prisoners. In the end there may be
more fans coming through the gates, although they may not exactly be the
same folks we've been used to rubbing shoulders with (cue the music -
"dueling banjos" from Deliverance...), but what we're watching is
certainly going to be different, and the factories and top riders in the
series better start to understand that now.
Then today came the very exciting MotoGP opener, although pretty strung
out in the end. Aside from the Yamaha/Michelin front row that got all
the press and a race with no readily apparent tire advantage, most
telling was that top four - Stoner, Lorenzo, Pedrosa and Dovizioso. In
case you hadn't noticed, that's a combined 218kg, or 480lbs, of rider
weight, or an average of 55kg / 120lbs per rider. Now given that the
lightest champion in GP premier class history was Stoner, the heaviest
of this group, one has to recognize a massive change in GP. Going
entirely unreported by the press, of course.
With Toseland a very competitive 6th, there were also three rookies in
the top six. Now does this mean we have an extraordinary crop of rookies
this year? No, of course not - Lorenzo couldn't ever beat both Pedrosa
and Stoner before they left the 250 class, Dovizioso was no Pedrosa on
the 250 Honda, and Toseland was hardly a blazing rocket in his seven
years in WSB. What it shows is what Qatar qualifying also showed, as did
Stoner's championship last year - these bikes are getting progressively
easier to ride fast, and exactly how fast depends on things largely
outside the rider's control - how well he matches up with the machine,
how good the machine is, how good the tires are. At Qatar it was the
Michelin qualifiers and not the Bridgestones that worked, the Hondas
didn't so much, so the Yamahas swept the front row. Almost doesn't
matter who the riders were.
Fading to fifth was Rossi, on what appeared to be the best bike and what
are usually the best tires. Really kind of sad, after a fiery charge to
the lead early on that reminded one of the past and gave his fans real
hope. So was this a sign that he's really done, a shadow of his former
self? I don't think so, I think it's an indication of two things: one,
he never was quite as good as people seemed to think/hope, and two, when
you don't have the right stuff today in MotoGP, you're going to get
beaten, doesn't matter who you are. Today was a Michelin day, and he
chose the wrong side on that matter. That may not change much, as it
seems unlikely that Bridgestone will focus their development on him the
way Michelin used to, to the detriment of their other riders. And that
he was beaten in the final laps by a MotoGP rookie on a lease Honda (one
based on the '07 disaster) says an awful lot about where things stand in
GP today. Of course that he outweighs Lorenzo and Dovizioso by some
25-30 pounds doesn't help any - makes me think of those Vale the Giant
photos taken after the Valencia finale in '04, with 125 champ Andrea and
250 champ Dani. Still, to see Europe's Frankenstein monster, the first
manufactured champion, go down like that showed how far things have gone.
It was interesting to hear Mladin's comment on the SB pregame show on
TV, that Spies will find racing a MotoGP machine on the tracks of Europe
much easier than racing a SB over here ("I think once he does leave
here, once he gets on those bikes he's gonna find them very, very easy
to ride on those racetracks compared to riding a superbike on these
racetracks"). Definitely the overall feeling about the bikes, that
today's 800s are nothing like the 500s of the distant past, or even the
early 990s of more recent days, which is why these rookies can be so
fast. Of course that doesn't mean winning is easy, rather it probably is
impossible today unless the equipment is the right stuff. With this
weekend tilted, if only slightly, toward the Michelins, the rookies
shined. Land on a Bridgestone track, one that Toseland doesn't know, and
it's a different ballgame.
So what about Stoner? Well, he still has that magic combination and it's
still working for him. You have to give him credit for coming from
behind and winning going away on Bridgestones this weekend, considering
the other Bridgestone Ducatis finished 11th, 14th and 15th. But you have
to recognize that he shared that podium with a MotoGP rookie in his
first race and a guy with a very sore hand who missed most of winter
testing and was on the wayward factory Honda that looked to be going
nowhere this weekend - where was the serious competition? Will it ever
show up this year? Michelin may not have caught Bridgestone, Rossi is
just another Bridgestone guy and they don't know him or his bike,
Pedrosa is still on Michelins and that questionable Honda, Melandri
can't ride the Ducati, Hayden has everything working against him, etc.,
etc. But he's still doing it, and not being the guy they wanted to be
doing it does bring a smirk to the face - even the best-laid plans...
No, the real heroes this weekend were Toseland, who hung in all the way
despite his slower satellite team Yamaha and perhaps satellite team
Michelins and his inferior superbike development and his extra 30 pounds
(although some five kilos off his SB weight, the "GP diet") and
(somewhat) inferior passport. Good stuff, James. And Mladin, the crafty
veteran working harder than ever and claiming maximum points out of
Daytona by taking pole and leading all the laps to the win, and doing it
all with that same old attitude. Definitely old school stuff, but a hard
ass who refuses to quietly fade away, and well worth applauding in these
watershed days.
Yet it feels like genuine racing is over anyway, being replaced by
income-producing "entertainment". In GP, winning takes the right bike,
the right tires, the right passport, the right size, much more than the
most talent. The guys in suits with corporate-sized wallets determine
the winner more than the guys in leathers with bovine-sized stones. In
WSB the ship has supposedly been righted by close racing thanks to
crappy spec Italian tires, and now it's back on course with rules-driven
manufacturer parity - defined, apparently, as the one Italian factory
having three times the wins of the four Japanese OEMs combined. And who
knows where American racing is headed, but the course certainly has
changed in a big way.
A brave new world, and it kinda brings a tear to the eye...
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Posted by guig on March 10, 2008, 3:49 am
>
> A brave new world, and it kinda brings a tear to the eye...
*yawn*
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Posted by Champ on March 10, 2008, 5:21 am
On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 08:31:25 GMT, Julian Bond
>>
>>> A brave new world, and it kinda brings a tear to the eye...
>>
>>*yawn*
>
>Quite. Welcome back to a quite amazing collection of prejudices. We
>missed them.
Only a bit :-)
>I think there were two major stories in Qatar MotoGP.
>
>- How the hell does Stoner do that? He's way ahead of all the other
>Ducatis and only one other Bridgestone runner could stay even close and
>he had major tyre life issues.
I think this was really a Michelin race (someone mentioned elsewhere
the experience Michelin have in 24 hour endurance racing, and coping
with night time temperatures). The two current stand-out riders,
Stoner and Rossi, managed to buck what should otherwise have been a
Michelin whitewash.
Stoner's performance was amazing, I think. No one on a Ducati was
near him, nor anyone on Bridgestones. The guy really is the real
deal.
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk
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Posted by Julian Bond on March 11, 2008, 3:09 am
>I think this was really a Michelin race (someone mentioned elsewhere
>the experience Michelin have in 24 hour endurance racing, and coping
>with night time temperatures). The two current stand-out riders,
>Stoner and Rossi, managed to buck what should otherwise have been a
>Michelin whitewash.
>
>Stoner's performance was amazing, I think. No one on a Ducati was
>near him, nor anyone on Bridgestones. The guy really is the real
>deal.
So did the increase in tyre allocation help things? The story goes that
Bridgestone sent over one set of trucks for the final testing and for
the race. There were a very small number flown in between the two.
Whereas Michelin did two separate manufacturing and shipping runs so
they could tailor the race weekend tyres according they learned in
testing.
When it came to the sessions, there was a big temperature difference
between the 1st and 2nd session each day but the same people were going
the same speed in each. If last year was a guide, and tyre allocation
was a problem we should have seen some big differences. When it got to
qualifying some riders had 3 and 4 qualifiers. So just maybe the tyre
allocation is a bit easier on everyone, we won't see people being
completely nowhere in some sessions and final qualifying will be a bit
more like it used to be.
The other big factor was fuel. It was very noticeable that the times in
morning warm up had taken the rest of the weekend and shaken it up. It
seems that they're all running a very different fuel set up in practice
compared with the race. Or at least for the last few minutes of each
session when they're chasing a time. And the big losers here were Tech3.
Toseland and Edwards need the new engine as soon as possible for its
fuel consumption as much as it's top end.
Does anyone know what mix and match Honda Pedrosa and Hayden ran in the
race? It's getting hard to keep track of what chassis, engine, and aero
package they're running at any one time. And with the engine is that
last year's, this year's or a combination? If the 2007 engine doesn't
fit in the 2008 chassis, then there's a 2008 bottom end with a valve
spring copy of the 2007 head bolted on it. One guess was that Pedrosa
needed 10 laps on the old bike to get himself back in the groove and to
fix in his head what worked for him. And that was the reason the 2007
bikes turned up. But by doing that he put doubt into Hayden's head who
then had to have a 2007 bike too.
--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat
Multigrain For A Unique Taste
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Posted by Dave on March 10, 2008, 11:44 pm
On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 21:32:28 -0700, Mark N
>Then today came the very exciting MotoGP opener, although pretty strung
>out in the end. Aside from the Yamaha/Michelin front row that got all
>the press and a race with no readily apparent tire advantage, most
>telling was that top four - Stoner, Lorenzo, Pedrosa and Dovizioso. In
>case you hadn't noticed, that's a combined 218kg, or 480lbs, of rider
>weight, or an average of 55kg / 120lbs per rider. Now given that the
>lightest champion in GP premier class history was Stoner, the heaviest
>of this group, one has to recognize a massive change in GP. Going
>entirely unreported by the press, of course.
I don't think you can credibly limit your observation to just those
four riders. That's just convenient manipulation of facts. You need
to expand that view to the top six, at least, as Rossi and Toseland
were right there all the way to the stripe and Dovi only took fourth
on the last lap. I could even make a weak case that you should
include Colin since he was much more involved with the group in front
than the one behind, but I'll concede that he was just out of touch
for a large part of the race.
The announcers did mention that Toseland dropped 15 pounds of muscle
because "that's the way it is in MotoGP". Mind you, not 15 pounds of
fat, and not 15 pounds of just getting in better shape (because James
is supremely fit by all accounts), but actually losing 15 pounds of
solid muscle just to be more competitive.
>
>With Toseland a very competitive 6th, there were also three rookies in
>the top six. Now does this mean we have an extraordinary crop of rookies
>this year? No, of course not - Lorenzo couldn't ever beat both Pedrosa
>and Stoner before they left the 250 class, Dovizioso was no Pedrosa on
>the 250 Honda, and Toseland was hardly a blazing rocket in his seven
>years in WSB. What it shows is what Qatar qualifying also showed, as did
>Stoner's championship last year - these bikes are getting progressively
>easier to ride fast, and exactly how fast depends on things largely
>outside the rider's control - how well he matches up with the machine,
>how good the machine is, how good the tires are. At Qatar it was the
>Michelin qualifiers and not the Bridgestones that worked, the Hondas
>didn't so much, so the Yamahas swept the front row. Almost doesn't
>matter who the riders were.
The oddity is, if the bikes are getting progressively easier to ride,
why aren't all those mid-pack runners getting faster? Why aren't the
guys that we know actually have talent and experience moving towards
the front better than the rookies? I'm including guys like Melandri,
Hayden, Vermeulen, Hopkins, and Edwards here. Guys who were near the
front on a semi-regular basis before, who can't consistently get there
on these "easier" bikes. I know there's a lot of factors at play and
most of those guys have their unique reasons.
>Fading to fifth was Rossi, on what appeared to be the best bike and what
>are usually the best tires. Really kind of sad, after a fiery charge to
>the lead early on that reminded one of the past and gave his fans real
>hope. So was this a sign that he's really done, a shadow of his former
>self? I don't think so, I think it's an indication of two things: one,
>he never was quite as good as people seemed to think/hope, and two, when
>you don't have the right stuff today in MotoGP, you're going to get
>beaten, doesn't matter who you are. Today was a Michelin day, and he
>chose the wrong side on that matter. That may not change much, as it
>seems unlikely that Bridgestone will focus their development on him the
>way Michelin used to, to the detriment of their other riders. And that
>he was beaten in the final laps by a MotoGP rookie on a lease Honda (one
>based on the '07 disaster) says an awful lot about where things stand in
>GP today. Of course that he outweighs Lorenzo and Dovizioso by some
>25-30 pounds doesn't help any - makes me think of those Vale the Giant
>photos taken after the Valencia finale in '04, with 125 champ Andrea and
>250 champ Dani. Still, to see Europe's Frankenstein monster, the first
>manufactured champion, go down like that showed how far things have gone.
Rossi's still a top rider, no doubt about that. However, I think his
reactions to the past couple seasons have been very telling about him
as a person and a rider. He wants to have the advantage. He expects
it. He demands it. When he doesn't have it he can still win, but he
certainly doesn't dominate. We're only one round down, though, and
it's way too early to draw conclusions about this season for Rossi.
Personally, if he does lose the championship, I hope it's the
Bridgestones that does him in. I'd like to see him right there all
season though.
Interesting that the announcer actually called out that Michelin
develops and provides different levels of tires for different riders,
while Bridgestone has an equal access policy. Inferring, of course,
that Rossi will have to live without the preferential treatment he was
so accustomed to. I'm generally not in favor of spec tires for a
series, but I would like to see more of the equal access policy
applied by other vendors and other series.
>So what about Stoner? Well, he still has that magic combination and it's
>still working for him.
He's still proof positive that it's more about the combination of
factors coming together. Top team, top bike, top rider, and a
rider/bike/tire style that all suit each other. I'd say Yosh Suzuki
proves that just as well.
One thing I noticed was that the Duc didn't have anywhere near the
power advantage they had last year. Casey had a tough time passing
down the straight even with a two bike draft, whereas last season he
was blowing by them quite easily. That plus the patience he showed
made the victory all the more impressive. I'm not so sure I'd dismiss
his competition as easily as you did.
>No, the real heroes this weekend were Toseland
Agreed.
>And Mladin
Ditto.
Although, am I the only one who thinks Mladin looks like he's gone a
little overboard on the fitness regime? His face looks too
unnaturally hollow. Dropping your body fat to too low a level is not
entirely healthy.
>Yet it feels like genuine racing is over anyway, being replaced by
>income-producing "entertainment".
I wouldn't go that far...yet. The new AMA situation does concern me
greatly.
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