T3 wrote:
> Another color change, hopefully the final one, for a while anyway.
> http://superbikeplanet.com/2008/Jul/080703z.htm
> http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article3116
> Looks like some folks actually started talking...
Perhaps more like someone actually started listening, that somebody
being DMG, of course. Probably the result of the MIC announcement, the
positions being taken by Miller, Laguna and perhaps other tracks, and
the fan outrage in general. What would be really interesting to know
is if any change forthcoming is the result of Jimmy France getting
directly involved, banging on his employees and shouting, "What the
hell are you guys doing?!"...
Anyway, the devil is in the details, as you say, and there are many
more questions than answers still. So is this the latest version of
Literbike, isolate the factory teams and try to keep the rest out - no
purse or mandatory contingencies, etc.? Does the latest rumor about a
1000 SStock class ("American SB") still stand, and is GSB ("Genuine
SB") just a 09-10 stop-gap, do they switch if the FIM's SB dumb-down
at the national and perhaps world level starts to build momentum? Or
do they add a 600 SSt class instead, since so much momentum seemed to
have been behind the removal of AMA SSt? Or are we still at two
classes?
In any case, we are where we should have been 3-4 months ago, DMG
having wasted all that time and created all that aggrevation for
everyone for essentially nothing. At least everyone learned that these
guys are not to be trusted - with anything.
Now what about that riding in the rain at all road courses?
Mark N wrote:
> In any case, we are where we should have been 3-4 months ago, DMG
> having wasted all that time and created all that aggrevation for
> everyone for essentially nothing. At least everyone learned that these
> guys are not to be trusted - with anything.
Of course this really begs the question: Why not just run the '09/'10
AMA rules they had already set up and agreed to. Run 'em for two years,
then pull the rug out from under them. No reason to adopt something like
WSBK when they already have a rules package. Nothing to negotiate any
more. Run '09, start talking new rules winter of '09, run '10 and change
them to whatever in '11.
What a waste of time.
And the other key, if adopted as rumored, it's a complete cave for DMG.
This whole experience has been very expensive for them in terms of good
will and respect, from everyone. Lot of folks had a lot of high hopes
coming in to this, and most of that has been shattered, even if they're
"seeing the light". They may be seeing the light, but we have all seen
them "in the light", and didn't necessarily like what we saw.
Regards,
Will Hartung
>
> Yeah, I guess they thought their monopoly power was total, and that the
> factories needed racing more than racing needed them. In the end,
> though, the factories were prepared to split, and DMG needed them to
> homologate their bikes for DSB at an absolute minimum. But at the very
> beginning Rog Ed was going on about trains leaving stations or
> whatever, just amazingly arrogant.
I think before giving not enough/too much credit to any one group, or
voice you might want to consider how hard fuel prices are impacting
every aspect of our economy. I'm sure DMG knows, or will have a pretty
good idea after this evening..
http://www.local6.com/news/16789067/detail.html
There was quite a discussion back at Daytona about how DMG would
manifest themselves and their new way, with us old timer's split on
whether they'd ease US racing into their vision, or force feed it. Now
it looks like maybe they're unwilling to go the draconian route,(at
this time) though I don't believe it has much to do with anything
beyond the economy, as every penny gas rises removes $'s from the
equation and running die-hard folks off at this time with their new
vision isn't fiscally smart and when it comes to $'s the guys aren't
anything, but smart..
Is the Nip OEM war over? Oh hell no! It looks it's just on the back
burner for a while, that's all..
IF, and it's a pretty big if right now, they actually do proceed with a
WSB thing I'd expect something to go, be it ST, or most likely the
SStock type litres, as there just isn't enough time in the weekend, or
on Sunday for that matter...
>
>> So, adopting WSB, I think, is mud in their visionary eye. As you say,
>> it doesn't fix the primary complaint about the series -- expense and
>> unobtainium. It's a complete concession to the factories, even if it's
>> a "Secondary series".
>
> It just seems like they keep trying to mess with the factories in the
> literbike thing, either giving them something overburdoning and
> isolated (Literbike and perhaps Factory Superbike), or something they
> really don't want or like (American Superbike). But they're always
> screwing with the factories,and it never really feels like they're
> being a good, responsible steward of racing here. They managed to peel
> Yamaha away the first time and then switched up to something in their
> image, involving scales and dynos.
Divide and conquer, at it's finest too..
>
>> I like your idea of DSB being a "one stop mini endurance", that sets it
>> apart, it's not TOO long, and it adds in all the elements they want to
>> the mix. I can't see it running twice a weekend, tho, but, frankly, I
>> can't fathom seeing the first event on Saturday if I have to endure a
>> Moto-ST race to get there. The Moto-ST race, frankly, turns the whole
>> thing in to a one day event for me.
>>
>> If they ran "FSB" twice, 1pm Saturday followed by Moto-ST, and 3pm
>> Sunday, following Red Bull and DSB, then I can see going both days. I
>> can come for qualifying, practice, the FSB race, and then leave, maybe
>> catching a bit of Moto-ST, or whatever. Then I can come back on Sunday
>> for the 3 other races.
>>
>> That's a decent value to me.
>
> I think MOTO-ST really has to go, other than where a promoter wants it.
> I think what they need is a middleweight SSp/SSt class for guys with
> the 2nd-level license, a point of entry for guys from the clubs, from
> dirttrack, from Red Bull Cup. That also makes the factories happier
> about the promotion of their 600s and they may choose not to mess with
> DMG's vision in the DSB class.
>
> DSB really needs to be a one-race deal, that's why the length is
> important, that and to make it fundamentally different in every way.
> Having a superpole on Saturday and the big race on Sunday allows it to
> be framed as the feature event if desirable, even though GSB continues
> to run exactly as it does now. Except it may be that GSB has to run on
> Sunday morning, the traditional Supersport slot, to create enough time
> separation to allow riders to do both classes if they want - GSB, lunch
> break, SS, DSB. Saturday would finish with DSB SP and then the GSB
> race, and I suppose the Red Bull rookies last. Or they run that after
> warmups on Sunday morning.
I think they want only DSB on Sunday, I also believe they'll eventually
(if not sooner) make those races 100 miles, or so, with at least one
pit stop too..
>
>> Then, if their vision works out, in two years they can demote FSB to
>> Sunday, maybe swap back "new DSB Sprint edition" for the two races, and
>> slowly get back to their promised land. But at least it's
>> transitionary, and gives time for everyone to work things out and get
>> to know one another than what is happening right now.
>
> I would hope that they just evaluate the ting and see what works and
> what doesn't. If nothing's broken, don't change it. Eventually GSB
> would be dumbed-down more, of course, but no need for it to go away.
> Then again, we really don't know what DMG's long-term vision is, do we?
See above..
>
>> Of course, the real crux of this, as a spectator and remote observer,
>> we're not supposed to know about ANY of this. It's all supposed to be
>> done in smoked filled rooms. Seems to me, after the first release,
>> every other thing we've heard from DMG is reaction or rumor (save the
>> "race in the rain for cash and prizes" comments). But, as far as the
>> new series, they haven't said much "officially". It's all either second
>> hand or reactions to "leaks".
> >
> > But what we have heard is all has been "from the throne", from the
> > Dictator, running his dictatorship. From the lorded over peoples,
> all > we hear is dissent and off with his head.
>
> The problem from the beginning was the train/station thing, the
> dictator's approach. You can't have a smoke-filled room unless people
> are dealing, and DMG never intended to, it seems. The strange path of
> the literbike class is littered with an announced intention by DMG, a
> reaction by the factories, another announced intention by DMG, another
> reaction by the factories. But no one's really talking.
No, they've been too busy covering their collective asses and trying
figure out this new regime, the latter I can understand, the former, I
do not..
>
>> If DMG accepts the WSB proposal, it goes in the face of the
>> dictatorship, it ruins, for the time being, the grand scheme.
>> Everything I've heard from DMG has been, essentially, little more than
>> contempt for what we have now. If they accept the WSB proposal, they'll
>> be holding their nose doing it. "We'll do it, but under protest". They
>> may talk compromise, but it sure doesn't come well from their
>> statements and posturing. There's no sincerity here.
>
> Well, there's no sincerity there about anything, is there? Yes, they
> are compromising, but it's with the factories only, they don't seem to
> quite get that the fans and the promoters want kind of the same things
> as well, trick literbikes.
I wouldn't go that far at all..
> What they seem to be doing is trying to make sure that class isn't any
> better than it is now, to drive the fans away from it and toward DSB.
Though I would not bet against that..
> Again, the Good Shepard thing. As for their grand scheme, I still have
> almost no idea what it is, if it even exists, so anything on that is
> pure speculation.
"Someone" said it's best to wait until a rule book is printed and that
most of what we see and read until then is posturing and little more..
>
>> That will mean, even if adopted, FSB will be the red headed black sheep
>> step child, and likely shown the door as soon as practical, and perhaps
>> actively undermined. It goes against, to the core, the philosophy of
>> what DMG is trying to do. But, apparently, they're not strong enough
>> that they think they can let the factories just walk. They want to tell
>> them to get stuffed, but seem, so far, to lack the willpower to stick
>> to their guns, pushing their vision through the throngs assembled
>> outside with torches and pitchforks.
>
> But if things remain as they are now, the factories can always react to
> the axe being given to GSB by pulling out and stopping with 600
> homologation for DSB. Shit, MIC could continue on with groundwork for
> an alternative series, perpetually warming in the bullpen. DMG only
> wins if DSB wins out over GSB in the eyes of the fans, at the tracks
> and at home watching TV, and sponsors, of course. And we can't just
> assume that will happen, not at all.
The MIC thing was a bluff, plain and simple, at least I hope it was,
because the last thing any of us should want is some west coast Jap SB
series and all the blowback that will come from that..
>
>> That's the consequence, I think, if DMG pushes it and the factories
>> walk. It's very hard to see a second series succeed, and it's easy to
>> see the factories go on hiatus for several years. Maybe in 5 years, DMG
>> will want them back, and will have to go back knocking on their doors.
>> Or, perhaps the factories will be knocking on DMGs door. Kind of
>> depends on the success of the series.
>
> I don't know, I kind of think that the Japanese factories hold more
> cards than DMG does. If they all pulled out and started their own
> series and DMG was left with just Euro-American bikes, which is more
> appealing? The current fan would be more inclined to go with the
> factories, feeling DMG caused all of this. DMG has their money and
> their hammer, but is that enough?
Let's review. Money and hammers? If hammers means influence at every
venue in this country and money meaning, well, boatloads of buck$, I
dunno 'bout you, but I'm thinkin' I'm going with the rich carpenter.
And speaking of rich, when is France gonna write the check, I mean
c'mon, it's been what, 4 month's? Time to pony up some bucks I would
think...
>
>> I don't know what's going to happen. I'm cynical about the whole thing,
>> and even if we went '09 AMA rules, with the current teams, even the
>> current classes, the whole thing has left such a bad taste in my mouth,
>> I don't know why I should patronize this new organization at all.
>> They're doing nothing to earn it in my book.
>
> Yeah, that's the thing, if DMG is obviously holding their noses on
> literbikes and constructs the class to fail, then it will be a bitter
> thing, and I and probably others will be rooting for DSB to fail.
You see, that's the part I don't get, especially from someone that
professes love for the sport..
> One would hope that DMG would figure that out, understand that they
> screwed up and that they have to fix that. With these guys, it's hard
> to have much hope at all that they will.
Shit, you're just dreamin' again, damn, and I thought you were
conscious, oh well...
I hope everyone had a safe and fun 4th (Limey azzkickin' holiday) I'm
pretty sure we did, at least AFAIK we didn't burn anything down and no
one went to the ER, or, more importantly, has called about bail...
XML Sitemap
> http://superbikeplanet.com/2008/Jul/080703z.htm
> http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article3116
> Looks like some folks actually started talking...