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Posted by Mark N on June 23, 2008, 12:29 am
Carl Sundquist wrote:
>
> "Mark N" wrote
>> Anyway, when was the last time anyone came into a premier class GP so
>> raw and acquitted himself so well? Kocinski at Spa in '89?
>
> Chaz Davies 2007?
>
> At least Spies had time on the Suzuki last November in Valencia.
Yeah, forgot all about that. But I think Chaz had spent time on the
track at Laguna, that wasn't totally new to him. And
technically-speaking, he did finish last in the race and every session
he did. Although he was more impressive than that would indicate, he did
lap quicker in the race than a couple guys who did the whole race (Checa
and Guintoli), and he was really thrown in the deep end, hired at
lunchtime on Friday. But he also likely had better equipment, the Ducati
good enough to give Stoner a dominant championship and Barros a couple
podiums on the D'Antin version, and that was definitely a Bridgestone
weekend as well. And he was a GP guy after all, it's not like he'd
fallen into a totally foreign series. For Davies what was so notable
about that weekend was that he didn't embarrass himself, he didn't get
smoked, in a situation where he easily could have. You know, like Duhamel.
Oh, and we all know the MotoGP bikes ride like 250s, which is exactly
what Davies used to race...
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Posted by Carl Sundquist on June 23, 2008, 8:14 am
> Carl Sundquist wrote:
>>
>> "Mark N" wrote
>>> Anyway, when was the last time anyone came into a premier class GP so
>>> raw and acquitted himself so well? Kocinski at Spa in '89?
>>
>> Chaz Davies 2007?
>>
>> At least Spies had time on the Suzuki last November in Valencia.
>
> Yeah, forgot all about that. But I think Chaz had spent time on the track
> at Laguna, that wasn't totally new to him.
I saw a couple of articles that said it was his first time at the track. He
was racing for Celtic Racing last year, an East Coast outfit, right? It's
possible he had been on LS during a trackday, but I don't know how likely.
> For Davies what was so notable about that weekend was that he didn't
> embarrass himself, he didn't get smoked, in a situation where he easily
> could have. You know, like Duhamel.
I think everyone was embarrassed for Duhamel.
And not that it's a particularly arguable point about the proficiency of the
D'Antin bike of Barros last year, but he had just one podium.
I'm looking forward to see how well Spies does at Laguna. Having jumped
between classes at race meets for years now it shouldn't be too much of a
distraction, but working simultaneously with two different teams could be.
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Posted by Mark N on June 23, 2008, 11:10 am
Carl Sundquist wrote:
> "Mark N" wrote
>> Carl Sundquist wrote:
>>> "Mark N" wrote
>>>> Anyway, when was the last time anyone came into a premier class GP
>>>> so raw and acquitted himself so well? Kocinski at Spa in '89?
>>>
>>> Chaz Davies 2007?
>>>
>>> At least Spies had time on the Suzuki last November in Valencia.
>>
>> Yeah, forgot all about that. But I think Chaz had spent time on the
>> track at Laguna, that wasn't totally new to him.
>
> I saw a couple of articles that said it was his first time at the track.
> He was racing for Celtic Racing last year, an East Coast outfit, right?
> It's possible he had been on LS during a trackday, but I don't know how
> likely.
I was assuming that they'd tested there, didn't remember anything
specifically about not knowing the track. He did have SSp practice to at
least get a sense of the track layout, to learn it a bit. Not that
that's better than doing the first MGP practice session.
>> For Davies what was so notable about that weekend was that he didn't
>> embarrass himself, he didn't get smoked, in a situation where he
>> easily could have. You know, like Duhamel.
>
> I think everyone was embarrassed for Duhamel.
Yep, that was bad.
> And not that it's a particularly arguable point about the proficiency of
> the D'Antin bike of Barros last year, but he had just one podium.
You're right, the ol' memory isn't what it used to be - I must have been
thinking of his 4th in Turkey as a podium.
> I'm looking forward to see how well Spies does at Laguna. Having jumped
> between classes at race meets for years now it shouldn't be too much of
> a distraction, but working simultaneously with two different teams could
> be.
I suspect his mind will be on MotoGP, especially if he does Assen this
week, even though he'll have a SB championship to win. Given that Mladin
et al are testing there this week, it might actually be a good thing for
the AMA race, as Spies has pretty much owned the place the last couple
years.
Anyway, I think he has a chance to do quite well, although he won't be
riding Capirossi's bikes and working with Shenton and his team, it'll be
some sort of add-on operation, probably with Japanese technicians. So
that won't help. But having experience with the bike and tires, having
done a race weekend or two, and knowing the track, having success there
should all make a big difference, plus there's Vermeulen's success there
the last two years, which establishes Suzuki can do very well there.
Certainly anything but a top ten would be a big disappointment (Rog
Hayden managed that last year), and probably worse than a 5th-7th. My
guess is he'll be thinking podium.
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Posted by Champ on June 23, 2008, 5:44 am
On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 19:43:00 -0700, Mark N
>Anyway, when was the last time anyone came into a premier class GP so
>raw and acquitted himself so well? Kocinski at Spa in '89?
8th was the highest qualifying position of a rookie *american* rider
since Kocinski at Spa.
However, off the top of my head, you need to look at both Biaggi's and
Abe's first 500 rides (both at Suzuka), or, for that matter, Lorenzo
at Qatar this year...
Although I guess by 'so raw' you meant 'not having ridden any GP
before', which is a valid point.
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk
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Posted by Mark N on June 23, 2008, 11:27 am
Champ wrote:
> Mark N wrote:
>
>> Anyway, when was the last time anyone came into a premier class GP so
>> raw and acquitted himself so well? Kocinski at Spa in '89?
>
> 8th was the highest qualifying position of a rookie *american* rider
> since Kocinski at Spa.
>
> However, off the top of my head, you need to look at both Biaggi's and
> Abe's first 500 rides (both at Suzuka), or, for that matter, Lorenzo
> at Qatar this year...
>
> Although I guess by 'so raw' you meant 'not having ridden any GP
> before', which is a valid point.
Well, yeah, what I'm talking about is someone who essentially has no
baseline at all going in. Spies had done those laps on the 2007 Suzuki
during press ride day and had at least been to the Laguna GPs the last
few years, plus the GPs at Sepang and Valencia last year, but that's it.
The guys you're talking about had been racing at those tracks for
years and had been riding those bikes all winter in testing (Abe racing
his in Japan, right?), so that's a totally different thing, you're just
talking about a first race in class. There just aren't that many guys
who come in as cold as Spies this weekend, although Carl pointing out
Davies is a very good example.
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