End of the AMA privateers?

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End of the AMA privateers? Will Hartung 03-15-2008
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Posted by Will Hartung on March 15, 2008, 2:26 pm
From http://www.amadirectlink.com/news/2008/transcript.asp

"I think that it’s important that we find a way to move to true
professionalism here. I’ll give you an example. I don’t think that one
rider, one bike, a guy getting in a van and going somewhere to race for
prize money is professional racing. In other words, the old division
used to be, if you made a little more money than you spent, or if you
had the potential to make more money than you spent, that was
professional racing. Professional racing is when you leave home and your
bills are paid for by a sponsor, and you’re representing a company."

Seems to me this is half the SB grid and a bulk of the SS and FX grids.

With no TV rights, (Speed? Umm..no), and with what TV we do have is
basically focused on the top 5 or 6 riders in the race, so the also rans
never have any camera time. Add to that there's simply little room on
the bike to show of a corporate logo. At least you can see the TIDE logo
from across the track in NASCAR, doesn't matter what place the driver
is in, and the yellows keep them all bunched up for photo ops as well.

So, where does DMG expect to get these companies that want to sponsor
these riders? What's in it for them? And where have they been all these
years? Waiting for the factories to get out and hogging all the camera time?

At the same time, we have Duhamels line about "not all of the AMA-PRO
license racers are here to race".
http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=31735

That talks to the same kind of thing. Duhamels vision of racing is
clearly different from the lower end of the spectrum racers. Granted, he
gets paid to have a different kind of vision. And I don't think that
Duhamel was referring to up and coming Johnny Rock Pages of the world,
but more likely the long term veterans of the privateer paddock, who
never place well, and will never place well, and they're not
perceptively trying to place well. But they race anyway, cuz they like
the race. (How many of the short end of the grid went and lost 15 lbs
over the break like Mladin, Spies, the Bostroms, etc. The front line are
all ghosts this year.)

There are certainly SOME of these riders in the paddock. Complacent
racers, for lack of a better term. Hobbyist racers who happen to be able
to qualify in SB and can afford to play.

So, I'm just curious where DMG plans on getting all of this money. I
guess it's working out in MOTO-ST, which I think will most likely be
merged with AMA next year and from which lessons will be applied to AMA.
(Combined AMA and Grand Am "challenges" here we come!)

Changes are in the wind folks...be interesting to see how this shakes out.

Oh, and Mladin is done. If he's contracted through '09, he'll stay, but
he won't race in a series that hurts his bike so that others can catch
up, that's in the wind too.

Posted by T3 on March 15, 2008, 4:16 pm

> From http://www.amadirectlink.com/news/2008/transcript.asp
>
> "I think that itÕs important that we find a way to move to true
> professionalism here. IÕll give you an example. I donÕt think that one
> rider, one bike, a guy getting in a van and going somewhere to race for
> prize money is professional racing. In other words, the old division
> used to be, if you made a little more money than you spent, or if you
> had the potential to make more money than you spent, that was
> professional racing. Professional racing is when you leave home and
> your bills are paid for by a sponsor, and youÕre representing a
> company."
>
> Seems to me this is half the SB grid and a bulk of the SS and FX grids.
>
> With no TV rights, (Speed? Umm..no), and with what TV we do have is
> basically focused on the top 5 or 6 riders in the race, so the also
> rans never have any camera time. Add to that there's simply little room
> on the bike to show of a corporate logo. At least you can see the TIDE
> logo from across the track in NASCAR, doesn't matter what place the
> driver is in, and the yellows keep them all bunched up for photo ops as
> well.
>
> So, where does DMG expect to get these companies that want to sponsor
> these riders? What's in it for them? And where have they been all these
> years? Waiting for the factories to get out and hogging all the camera
> time?
>
> At the same time, we have Duhamels line about "not all of the AMA-PRO
> license racers are here to race".
> http://roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=31735
>
> That talks to the same kind of thing. Duhamels vision of racing is
> clearly different from the lower end of the spectrum racers. Granted,
> he gets paid to have a different kind of vision. And I don't think that
> Duhamel was referring to up and coming Johnny Rock Pages of the world,
> but more likely the long term veterans of the privateer paddock, who
> never place well, and will never place well, and they're not
> perceptively trying to place well. But they race anyway, cuz they like
> the race. (How many of the short end of the grid went and lost 15 lbs
> over the break like Mladin, Spies, the Bostroms, etc. The front line
> are all ghosts this year.)
>
> There are certainly SOME of these riders in the paddock. Complacent
> racers, for lack of a better term. Hobbyist racers who happen to be
> able to qualify in SB and can afford to play.
>
> So, I'm just curious where DMG plans on getting all of this money. I
> guess it's working out in MOTO-ST, which I think will most likely be
> merged with AMA next year and from which lessons will be applied to
> AMA. (Combined AMA and Grand Am "challenges" here we come!)

I dunno about that Will, I'd imagine they'd be brought into the AMA
fold, but it's unclear as whether part of SB, (which I doubt) or (more
likely) as an endurance series of their own, though I wouldn't rule out
a joint weekend "sometime(s), somewhere".. ;-)

>
> Changes are in the wind folks...be interesting to see how this shakes out.

We'll prolly get bits and pieces, or try to figure out what specific
direction they'll take by who's hired and what Corps. they may link
with, but I doubt we'll get the big picture for a while, though somehow
I get the feeling it'll end up resembling something like a stockier
WSB, sans Ducati rules, spec tires and all...

>
> Oh, and Mladin is done. If he's contracted through '09, he'll stay, but
> he won't race in a series that hurts his bike so that others can catch
> up, that's in the wind too.

And we might be surprised exactly how that happens too..

Check this out, this guy could've just asked us, as most of his
manifesto has been "discussed" here at one time, or another...

http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/ama-sbk-advice-to-dmg-2009-manifesto/


Posted by Julian Bond on March 16, 2008, 4:19 am
>Check this out, this guy could've just asked us, as most of his
>manifesto has been "discussed" here at one time, or another...
>
>http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/ama-sbk-advice-to-dmg-2009-manifesto/

Funny how what he's suggesting is almost exactly where BSB has ended up.

The one piece that might be missing is some sort of reward for the
smaller teams that have less funding. For a few years now BSB has had a
second competition known as the Superbike Privateers Cup in the same
race. But to work, the organisers need to be hard on not allowing
established teams and riders to cherry pick by nominating themselves for
it.

It's going to be hard for any Superbike series to work out what to do
with the twins. WSB and BSB are taking different routes to equalising
them with the fours. So the AMA will be able to learn from that by the
time the 2009 rules are decided. I do think the Twins should be in
there. And they do need some sort of equalisation to be competitive.

The other difficulty is picking the right level of tuning allowed for
the 600s. WSS600 and BSB600 (like FX) is expensive now and we might see
this get dumbed down. But probably not as far as AMA SS600 which is
really closer to what the rest of the world calls Superstock 600.

I think he's wrong about the 3rd championship being a one make or one
model spec championship. But perhaps it doesn't matter because there
ought to be at least 3 more races after the 2 Superbike and 1 Supersport
to fill out the race day card. Pick and choose from 125GP, Supermono,
KTM Duke cup, Buell cup, entry level Superstock 1000 and 600, R6 Cup, R1
Cup, GSXR750 Cup, or anything else the organisers can get sponsorship
for. If we want carnage for the spectators, perhaps a ZX10R cup on
slicks for 17 year olds! If the MotoGP Academy is going to mean anything
there's a good argument for it being 125GP or something that leads to
that like a spec Metrakit or KTM 125 formula for teenagers.

--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat
Dispose Thoughtfully

Posted by T3 on March 16, 2008, 1:23 pm

>> Check this out, this guy could've just asked us, as most of his
>> manifesto has been "discussed" here at one time, or another...
>>
>> http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/ama-sbk-advice-to-dmg-2009-manifesto/
>
> Funny how what he's suggesting is almost exactly where BSB has ended up.
>
> The one piece that might be missing is some sort of reward for the
> smaller teams that have less funding. For a few years now BSB has had a
> second competition known as the Superbike Privateers Cup in the same
> race. But to work, the organisers need to be hard on not allowing
> established teams and riders to cherry pick by nominating themselves
> for it.

I agree and another piece that might be missing is the actual race
weekend formula and that's where there's a real possibility we may end
up differing from the rest of the planet. I'm down with
de-professionalizing SSport and forcing the focus on SB, I might even
go for a Red-Bull type cup for the kids, but watch out in SB, those
races could easily end-up longer, perhaps even doubling in length at
the expense of the dual race weekend we've come to expect at many
venues, not to mention being the only race on Sunday..

>
> It's going to be hard for any Superbike series to work out what to do
> with the twins. WSB and BSB are taking different routes to equalising
> them with the fours. So the AMA will be able to learn from that by the
> time the 2009 rules are decided. I do think the Twins should be in
> there. And they do need some sort of equalisation to be competitive.

The twins will be in for sure, not only have the Duc's been missed *on*
the track, but so have those free spending Ducatista's *at* the the
track, though I'd imagine it's the 800lb gorilla's that never go to a
track that DMG will end up courting heavy and THEY ALL pretty much ride
twins, (Harley crowd) bring them back to the fold and it's a winner..

>
> The other difficulty is picking the right level of tuning allowed for
> the 600s. WSS600 and BSB600 (like FX) is expensive now and we might see
> this get dumbed down. But probably not as far as AMA SS600 which is
> really closer to what the rest of the world calls Superstock 600.

I'm thinkin' the new rule book will be full of things, things you can not do..

>
> I think he's wrong about the 3rd championship being a one make or one
> model spec championship. But perhaps it doesn't matter because there
> ought to be at least 3 more races after the 2 Superbike and 1
> Supersport to fill out the race day card. Pick and choose from 125GP,
> Supermono, KTM Duke cup, Buell cup, entry level Superstock 1000 and
> 600, R6 Cup, R1 Cup, GSXR750 Cup, or anything else the organisers can
> get sponsorship for. If we want carnage for the spectators, perhaps a
> ZX10R cup on slicks for 17 year olds! If the MotoGP Academy is going to
> mean anything there's a good argument for it being 125GP or something
> that leads to that like a spec Metrakit or KTM 125 formula for
> teenagers.

I really haven't thought about that a whole bunch, but you're right
there are a lot of options, though I'd think they'd opt for something
along the Red Bull line..

Just about everyone agrees that it's going to change, but I wonder if
it'll be a Machiavellian type deal and happen all at once, or whether
they'll ease us into it over a period of a few years. It's really to
soon to tell, but given who's now running the show and the
knowledge/experience/history they have, it could happen all next year,
but we'll see..



Posted by Julian Bond on March 16, 2008, 2:49 pm
>I agree and another piece that might be missing is the actual race
>weekend formula and that's where there's a real possibility we may end
>up differing from the rest of the planet. I'm down with
>de-professionalizing SSport and forcing the focus on SB, I might even
>go for a Red-Bull type cup for the kids, but watch out in SB, those
>races could easily end-up longer, perhaps even doubling in length at
>the expense of the dual race weekend we've come to expect at many
>venues, not to mention being the only race on Sunday..

More than one tank of fuel and so pit stops? Really? Hell, why not just
call it an endurance championship and run 6, 12 and 24 hour races.

--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
Personal WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ skype:julian.bond?chat
Discontinue Use If Rash Persists

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