RealMart wrote:
> pablo wrote:
>>
>> As always, very slanted towards the current star on a popularity high
>> due to his new title. If you'd asked a year ago, things woud have been
>> more contested :-)
>>
>> I am floored that Hailwood -who won the Motociclismo version of this-
>> isn't on the list. He still gets my vote, even though I think Roberts,
>> Agostini, Lawson, Rainey, Doohan and Rossi also have strong cases. And
>> Spencer and Schwantz should also be there for their brief outbursts of
>> insane brilliance.
Schwantz' wasn't all that brief, almost a decade, if you start with his
AMA SB years. In '89, his 2nd GP season, he won more races than anyone,
but it wasn't until '93 that he won the championship, when he decided to
do what it took for guys like Lawson and Rainey to win their many
championships. And he had a bike and team that could get there with him
- that he did what he did on a Suzuki is always under-appreciated.
>> Why Hailwood? Just coming out of long retirement and blowing up the TT
>> on a Ducati is one of the craziest feats ever accomplished.
> For me, Rossi cemented his place in history by a) switching from Honda
> to Yamaha and winning a championship and then b) making a comeback
> after not winning a championship for two years.
>
> I've got the greatest respect for Hailwood - the first time I went to
> the Isle of Man was a day trip to see the '78 F1 race - but for me
> Rossi has already accomplished more.
It's funny how people measure this sort of thing, which I think is
fundamentally unmeasurable - racing in Hailwood's day was entirely
different than today, and not only are you limited to comparing racers
to their direct competition, but also have to factor in their equipment.
That's why guys like Agostini and Doohan will always be somewhat
suspect, as Ago had that MV advantage when he racked up most of those
wins and Doohan had both the Honda and the depleted competition, after
taking six GP seasons to win his first.
The guy I always admired the most was Lawson, and the anecdotal stuff
includes being the first guy to win on a Cagiva and also winning a
couple one-off Daytona 200s on SBs. But the stuff that matters more is
that he won that championship after switching to Honda - and not a
particularly good Honda - and fought back to win championships twice
after losing them. Not too many GP guys have won a championship, lost it
and came back to win again - only Masetti, Duke, Surtees in the very
early days, then Ago, Spencer, Lawson and Rossi. And Lawson is the only
guy to do that twice. And that Lawson contributed materially to the
development of his Honda and the Cagiva also matters to me. What all
that speaks to is his determination and drive and racing intelligence.
For Ago, that he won the first two-stroke 500 championship and then went
back to win the last for a four-stroke on the MV means a lot. Otherwise,
he's just a guy who took advantage of the MV superiority to win a lot,
and started out there getting beaten by Hailwood and ended up getting
beaten by Read, both teammates. What makes Hailwood stand apart is that
he left MV and went to Honda, and then pushed Ago and MV to the brink in
'67. Doohan never did anything like that, he just played out the string
at Honda until he got too banged up to continue beating the crap out of
everyone.
Looking at Rossi he has all kinds of anecdotal touchpoints beyond all
the wins and championship - winning on two different brands of
motorcycle, including consecutively, winning on two different brands of
tires, winning on a 500, on 990s and on an 800, etc., etc. And then
there are all the great performances.
But then there's the other stuff. If you look at the guys he beat, the
guys who finished 2nd to him in those championships, they are Biaggi
(twice), Gibernau (twice), Melandri and Stoner (probably). Biaggi was
already a bit of a disappointment in 500 by 2001, having finished 3rd in
the 200 championship that he should have won if he was to be a great
champion (or a champion at all), and unless one believes that Rossi
broke him he's never quite measured up since. Gibernau's best years were
in 03-04 when he was called "one of the two best riders in the world",
but if you look at the rest of his career it's really not that
outstanding, very Checa-like. Melandri's season this year has to cast
serious doubt on him, an amazingly bad season on a factory bike fully
capable of winning races and a championship, perhaps the biggest flop in
the history of the sport.
So that leaves Stoner as the only champion ever vanquished, and a look
at his year also creates some doubt - out of nowhere he was almost
unbeatable last year, then the early races were a struggle, then
revised electronics made the pair unstoppable again, but then the Laguna
debacle - you either have to say Stoner was forced into a critical
error or he was the victim of Rossi's sleazy tactics - and then two
straight crashes out of leads of some notable margin. Likewise Rossi's
other challenger, Pedrosa, ended his chances by crashing out of a huge
lead and getting hurt.
On top of that is something Michael Scott wrote about in a column
published in CN a couple weeks ago. That is that commercial forces run
racing today, and that the situation has gotten way out of balance to
the detriment of the series in some respects. Specifically, he was
talking about the FIM's efforts to reenter the power structure after
selling off most of those rights in the early '90s, and his main issue
seemed to be the move away from two strokes inthe support classes. But
another aspect of this is that the series operates in a manner entirely
consistent with its financial success, and it's biggest asset in that
regard is its biggest star, Rossi. Rossi, the most popular racer in
history, races at a time when popularity matters more then ever before.
So in essence he gets whatever he wants, and Dorna makes sure of that if
anyone else gets confused about that reality.
Like Bridgestone and Michelin, for instance. Michelin understands that,
and it would be interesting to know how many of those victories were due
to the hard work of Michelin engineers on his behalf. But when it went
the other way the series made damned sure Rossi got the best tires
again, and he promptly rewarded them with yet another championship.
But look at the last two years. In 2006 bad luck and equipment failures
put him in a deep hole in the championship, and he came back to take
over the lead going into the last race. But that was less his doing -
his stretch drive simply wasn't that impressive - and more that Hayden
had gotten hit with his own bad luck and bad equipment. It was only good
fortune that the best bike (Pedrosa's) wasn't paired with the best
opposing rider, just as it hadn't been the previous few years. Then
Rossi faced his first decider in a final race and promptly choked,
crashing out while Hayden made his break.
Then last year he was done in by Ducati and Bridgestone (as much as
Stoner, it has to be said). But in the end he was also beaten by another
guy on Michelins and an even inferior 800. So he whines about his tires,
and Michelin, Bridegestone and Yamaha make unprecedented concessions,
all at the behest of Dorna's Ezpeleta. So this year he's back on top,
but the only guys with any serious chance of beating him, the only guys
in a position to do so, were Stoner, Pedrosa and Melandri - Stoner
showed he was only as good as his electronics and then even not that,
Pedrosa didn't quite have enough tire or bike and maybe even not quite
enough rider, and Melandri was completely hopeless on the Ducati (and
still hasn't won a dry race on Bridgestones). In MotoGP you're only as
good as your equipment and team, we know Rossi pretty much gets the best
of both, and very few others get the same, and not always the best of
the rest in these so very commercial times.
It's fitting that Rossi's commercial symbol is his #46, which has become
so because he's refused to ride with the #1 after winning his
championships. That says about all one has to know about the current
times in GP, it's all about the money. I think it would be very
admirable if Rossi would reward his factory and tradition by sporting
that #1 next season, now that he says he's learned a thing or two about
winning and losing the last few years. Probably too much to ask,
though...
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> As always, very slanted towards the current star on a popularity high
> due to his new title. If you'd asked a year ago, things woud have been
> more contested :-)