Posted by T3 on June 10, 2005, 8:55 am
I'm not sure if this is a vote of confidence or the beginning of the end?
http://www.cyclenews.com/ShowStory.asp?HeadlineIDw52
Posted by Mark N on June 10, 2005, 10:08 am
T3 wrote:
> I'm not sure if this is a vote of confidence or the beginning of the end?
> http://www.cyclenews.com/ShowStory.asp?HeadlineIDw52
How do you see it as the beginning of the end? I don't see anything
there that suggests that. Sure, at asome point Nicky would be dumped if
he doesn't deliver the results they want from him, he not Spanish, you
know. But I don't see any suggestion there that they are about to do
that. Regarding the team thing, I don't know that it really matters that
much, particularly when it appears the entire HRC support structure is
undergoing changes. It's not like Repsol is in a different class than
the others now, and I think there's little doubt that Nicky doesn't get
the support that Max and Sete get now.
I do find Fiorani's comment about Edwards and Bayliss kind of
interesting, though. I'm not sure how he means it, but he appears to
suggest that they spent too much time on SBs, that this sort of spoiled
them. I know that was said a lot in the 500 days (not when guys like
Lawson and Rainey and Schwantz and Doohan jumped from SB to 500 and
dominated, rather when guys like Duhamel and Mladin and Russell and
Corser and Gobert were given only a few months to prove themselves and
then were shipped out). But I don't see what that would be the case with
MotoGP. If someone is just too old, in physical decline or beyond the
point of real motivation, no longer hungry enough, that's one thing. But
he's saying they can't adapt, which I think is a very questionable
conclusion.
Edwards did spend a lot of time in SB, but he certainly looked motivated
at the end in 2002. Bayliss didn't linger there, he just got a very late
start and really only got settled in at the top in WSB in 2001. If you
look at Hayden, switching young hasn't seemed to help him transition
more quickly, and Hopkins is quite debatable at this point as well.
Maybe the issue with Edwards is more about opportunity and team
situations, sort of like Hopkins, and not anything to do with inability
to adapt. It's not like Colin was welcomed into the class like Rossi was.
Then again, that might just be a shot at Colin for saying what he has
about Honda, and a shot at Troy for getting off to such a horrible start
this year...
Posted by T3 on June 10, 2005, 12:22 pm
Mark N wrote:
> T3 wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure if this is a vote of confidence or the beginning of the end?
>> http://www.cyclenews.com/ShowStory.asp?HeadlineIDw52
>
>
> How do you see it as the beginning of the end? I don't see anything
> there that suggests that. Sure, at asome point Nicky would be dumped if
> he doesn't deliver the results they want from him, he not Spanish, you
> know. But I don't see any suggestion there that they are about to do
> that.
No, but his boss just saying he's ok and denying rumors, what rumors?
I've been in a position lately to read a lot,(more than I should?) I
haven't seen one word about Nicky other than what's been said here and
that was only a growing disappointment. I don't believe that's the kind
of reassurance Nicky needs, he needs a checkered flag!
Regarding the team thing, I don't know that it really matters that
> much, particularly when it appears the entire HRC support structure is
> undergoing changes. It's not like Repsol is in a different class than
> the others now, and I think there's little doubt that Nicky doesn't get
> the support that Max and Sete get now.
>
> I do find Fiorani's comment about Edwards and Bayliss kind of
> interesting, though. I'm not sure how he means it, but he appears to
> suggest that they spent too much time on SBs, that this sort of spoiled
> them. I know that was said a lot in the 500 days (not when guys like
> Lawson and Rainey and Schwantz and Doohan jumped from SB to 500 and
> dominated, rather when guys like Duhamel and Mladin and Russell and
> Corser and Gobert were given only a few months to prove themselves and
> then were shipped out). But I don't see what that would be the case with
> MotoGP. If someone is just too old, in physical decline or beyond the
> point of real motivation, no longer hungry enough, that's one thing. But
> he's saying they can't adapt, which I think is a very questionable
> conclusion.
Maybe it was a translation deal or maybe I wouldn't trust Fiorani as far
as I could throw him, but in a case like this, it could very well be a
harbinger of something, maybe a move down the dinner table. I don't
believe it's especially good news when the boss says your jobs ok and
he's willing to wait for you to produce. Any way you look at it, it's
not what Hayden needs right now, more pressure...
>
> Edwards did spend a lot of time in SB, but he certainly looked motivated
> at the end in 2002. Bayliss didn't linger there, he just got a very late
> start and really only got settled in at the top in WSB in 2001. If you
> look at Hayden, switching young hasn't seemed to help him transition
> more quickly, and Hopkins is quite debatable at this point as well.
> Maybe the issue with Edwards is more about opportunity and team
> situations, sort of like Hopkins, and not anything to do with inability
> to adapt. It's not like Colin was welcomed into the class like Rossi was.
>
> Then again, that might just be a shot at Colin for saying what he has
> about Honda, and a shot at Troy for getting off to such a horrible start
> this year...
I think there was a message in there somewhere, it's just hard to say
what exactly it was...
Posted by S Frank on June 10, 2005, 12:47 pm
> Mark N wrote:
> > T3 wrote:
> >
> >> I'm not sure if this is a vote of confidence or the beginning of the
end?
> >> http://www.cyclenews.com/ShowStory.asp?HeadlineIDw52
> >
> >
> > How do you see it as the beginning of the end? I don't see anything
> > there that suggests that. Sure, at asome point Nicky would be dumped if
> > he doesn't deliver the results they want from him, he not Spanish, you
> > know. But I don't see any suggestion there that they are about to do
> > that.
> No, but his boss just saying he's ok and denying rumors, what rumors?
> I've been in a position lately to read a lot,(more than I should?) I
> haven't seen one word about Nicky other than what's been said here and
> that was only a growing disappointment. I don't believe that's the kind
> of reassurance Nicky needs, he needs a checkered flag!
Well, he at least needs to be able to run with the leaders. Every time
he has the leaders in sight, he ends up crashing. I think Nicky needs
to be able to run with the leaders consistently before he will have
any chance of winning.
Posted by Michael Sierchio on June 10, 2005, 1:11 pm
T3 wrote:
> I'm not sure if this is a vote of confidence or the beginning of the end?
> http://www.cyclenews.com/ShowStory.asp?HeadlineIDw52
“I think that we make a mistake in the past with the Superbike riders.
I’m speaking of Colin (Edwards) or Troy (Bayliss). I think when they
moved from Superbike to MotoGP, they were already too old. So for them
it was difficult to adapt themselves to MotoGP. When you understand that
you have a talent like Chris (Vermeulen) or Nicky (Hayden), it’s important
to move them when they are still young. Chris is 21. in my opinion next year
will be good if we find a solution to move Chris into MotoGP. This is my
personal opinion.”
I think he may be right -- mathematics and motorbike racing favor young
talent. Who was it who said... "I spent the first five years motorbike
racing thinking of nothing but the checkered flag. I spent the next five
years thinking about not crashing."
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