Posted by Mark N on June 3, 2007, 2:08 pm
Sort of like the qualifying session, it seemed to all change several
times before the end, first looking like a Ducati runaway with Capirossi
and Stoner out front and running away and Rossi in real trouble, then
the Super250 battle with ten riders in the running and positions
swapping all the time, and then finally Rossi and Pedrosa pulling
inexorably away. And all on a dry track. Unfortunately, all that
happened by mid-race, so it ended up a rather boring race in the end. A
few observations:
- Rossi won, no surprise, that's six in a row for Vale there. But no
factory Ducati on the podium, which was a surprise. Stoner took a close
fourth, so another chunk of points, but you get the feeling he's now
under fire from Rossi, the first race of the run that did in Gibernau in
'04. By the time we get to Laguna the championship might look quite
different. And with Melandri and Capirossi fading and Biaggi off in WSB,
he was the only Italian show in town today, nothing like '05.
- Michelins take the top two spots, but then you drop all the way to
Hayden in 10th for the next one. What I suspect is going on there is the
result of the situations at Michelin, Honda and Yamaha showing itself at
last, those three OEM powers circling their battered (more or less)
wagons around the two guys they really intended to focus on all along,
and now we see the fruit of that. The caddies, Hayden and Edwards,
finished 10th and 12th, over a second a lap back, Nakano and Checa are
nowhere, and the Robertses even less, as is the French team with British
(sort of) tires.
- What happened to those mighty Ducatis? They still had the speed down
the straight, but this race showed that only matters if you're even
everywhere else. Barros on the D'Antin lease bike came out on top with
Stoner, and also posted the top speed, averaging 4kph more than Stoner
(Pedrosa posted the 4th-best speed, and Rossi 10, btw). Capirossi
reportedly ran a big bang version of the 800 this weekend, trying to
find a solution to his problems, led early, but then faded quickly,
ending up 7th behind Hopkins and Elias. Not good at home, where he'd
been on the box 3 of the last 4 years and won in 2000. No answers yet,
it seems.
- Bridgestone losing momentum in Europe? Not necessarity, it was just
one race, with dry practice in short supply, and Michelin's main problem
has seemed to be getting the right tire on the right bikes and riders
under the new rules. So maybe they just guessed right this weekend, who
knows. The 'Stones were good enough to have Barros, Stoner, Hopkins and
Elias looking very racy and they all have different requirements, and
the truly wet running showed their continuing superiority there.
- Honda's lost boys continued in their misery, Melandri pushing very
hard early on, but then fading badly, finally pushed back to 9th by
Vermeulen at the end, and beaten again by Elias. With all the talk of
Ducati in '08 you have to figure he's gone. But what's his problem, is
it the new Honda or is it the new (to him) tires, or is it just him? And
does Ducati want to inherit that? Well, he IS Italian, you know. And
Nakano once again did nothing, finishing 13th and 37 seconds back, and
with the same questions asked. Will equally lost Kawasaki take him back?
How about a spot next to Max at Alstare Suzuki (MotoGP)?
- Hopkins' determined riding was the only bright spot for Team America
this weekend, blown up to five this weekend. Hayden started out in his
usual position in the dry practice, slipped some in the rain and tried
to rebuild his wet weather confidence, hung on to the big lead group
early on, but never was higher than 9th. Edwards never had any pace in
the dry, although he did have better pace than the guys immediately in
front of him in the second half of the race. The Robertses share two
bikes, and Junior barely avoided the life-long embarrassment of not
qualifying for the race while Kurtis did, and then was horribly off any
pace in the race, while Kurtis only lasted three laps before his machine
was done.
Ah, on to Road America and those Superbikes...
Posted by T3 on June 4, 2007, 3:15 pm
> - Michelins take the top two spots, but then you drop all the way to
> Hayden in 10th for the next one. What I suspect is going on there is the
> result of the situations at Michelin, Honda and Yamaha showing itself at
> last, those three OEM powers circling their battered (more or less) wagons
> around the two guys they really intended to focus on all along, and now we
> see the fruit of that. The caddies, Hayden and Edwards, finished 10th and
> 12th, over a second a lap back, Nakano and Checa are nowhere, and the
> Robertses even less, as is the French team with British (sort of) tires.
It looked fairly obvious too..
> - What happened to those mighty Ducatis? They still had the speed down
> the straight, but this race showed that only matters if you're even
> everywhere else. Barros on the D'Antin lease bike came out on top with
> Stoner, and also posted the top speed, averaging 4kph more than Stoner
> (Pedrosa posted the 4th-best speed, and Rossi 10, btw). Capirossi
> reportedly ran a big bang version of the 800 this weekend, trying to find
> a solution to his problems, led early, but then faded quickly, ending up
> 7th behind Hopkins and Elias. Not good at home, where he'd been on the box
> 3 of the last 4 years and won in 2000. No answers yet, it seems.
> - Bridgestone losing momentum in Europe? Not necessarity, it was just one
> race, with dry practice in short supply, and Michelin's main problem has
> seemed to be getting the right tire on the right bikes and riders under
> the new rules. So maybe they just guessed right this weekend, who knows.
> The 'Stones were good enough to have Barros, Stoner, Hopkins and Elias
> looking very racy and they all have different requirements, and the truly
> wet running showed their continuing superiority there.
They're closer, that's for sure, but being a continent, or so away from the
action looks to be something they are going to struggle with, their tire to
bear, if you will..
> - Honda's lost boys continued in their misery, Melandri pushing very hard
> early on, but then fading badly, finally pushed back to 9th by Vermeulen
> at the end, and beaten again by Elias. With all the talk of Ducati in '08
> you have to figure he's gone. But what's his problem, is it the new Honda
> or is it the new (to him) tires, or is it just him? And does Ducati want
> to inherit that? Well, he IS Italian, you know. And Nakano once again did
> nothing, finishing 13th and 37 seconds back, and with the same questions
> asked. Will equally lost Kawasaki take him back? How about a spot next to
> Max at Alstare Suzuki (MotoGP)?
> - Hopkins' determined riding was the only bright spot for Team America
> this weekend, blown up to five this weekend. Hayden started out in his
> usual position in the dry practice, slipped some in the rain and tried to
> rebuild his wet weather confidence, hung on to the big lead group early
> on, but never was higher than 9th. Edwards never had any pace in the dry,
> although he did have better pace than the guys immediately in front of him
> in the second half of the race. The Robertses share two bikes, and Junior
> barely avoided the life-long embarrassment of not qualifying for the race
> while Kurtis did, and then was horribly off any pace in the race, while
> Kurtis only lasted three laps before his machine was done.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Honda's in disaray, Kaw and 'Zuki are probably only
showing better because of it and the 'Stones. The dwarf thing makes it not
same same, but not that far from, same as it ever was..
> Ah, on to Road America and those Superbikes...
And what's the deal with all the rain? Heh, Rumor has it the Limey's had
somethin' to do with it! And how 'bout SB on Sunday? Thanks Speed, just what
I wanted to see. Then again,maybe NOT! Anyway, looks like Ben caught a major
break given that fairly hard get-off on Sat., but Mat looks to be far from
done and Miller might(or might not, Zemke again?) just be a tipping point in
the SB chase. Ben's got 5 points, but looking at the remaining events I
think it's still advantage Mladin, Road Atlanta and VIR are looking huge in
the title run,(be there, or be, well, like Vale?) ISTR Mat doing "fairly
well" at those tracks, but that last race out your way is starting to look
better too..(Who knows? Maybe I'll hit the lotto!)
Kinda' funny/ironic dept., last race Mat was cryin' about how the top Q gets
a point and how it's really irrelevant, oddly enough, he didn't have too
much to say about it this week. Is that guy a prize, or what?
SStock, are those F'ing Gixxrz that much better than everything else?
Evidently, either that, or no one else really even tries..
SSport, what happened to my Limey? I thought all those guys were puddle
ponies. Jeez and I was hopin' he was gonna be different too. C'mon kid, it's
hammer time, quit letting all those septic bastards push you around!
FX, pretty good race, huh? Hayes got it goin' on, hat's off to the Rappster
too...
Posted by Mark N on June 4, 2007, 11:53 pm
T3 wrote:
> "Mark N" wrote
>> - Bridgestone losing momentum in Europe? Not necessarity, it was just one
>> race, with dry practice in short supply, and Michelin's main problem has
>> seemed to be getting the right tire on the right bikes and riders under
>> the new rules. So maybe they just guessed right this weekend, who knows.
>> The 'Stones were good enough to have Barros, Stoner, Hopkins and Elias
>> looking very racy and they all have different requirements, and the truly
>> wet running showed their continuing superiority there.
>
> They're closer, that's for sure, but being a continent, or so away from the
> action looks to be something they are going to struggle with, their tire to
> bear, if you will..
I really don't see it. Michelin can no longer brew on race weekend, so
both have two weeks to produce the rubber that will be selected amongst
on race eve, so they are really on even ground there. Michelin may well
have depended on that to some extent, so are now caught out having to do
what Bridgestone has been doing for years. The advantage Michelin has
now is having to do it all for fewer riders, and they have no problem
focusing on only two or three guys it seems, much like the old days in WSB.
>> - Honda's lost boys continued in their misery, Melandri pushing very hard
>> early on, but then fading badly, finally pushed back to 9th by Vermeulen
>> at the end, and beaten again by Elias. With all the talk of Ducati in '08
>> you have to figure he's gone. But what's his problem, is it the new Honda
>> or is it the new (to him) tires, or is it just him? And does Ducati want
>> to inherit that? Well, he IS Italian, you know. And Nakano once again did
>> nothing, finishing 13th and 37 seconds back, and with the same questions
>> asked. Will equally lost Kawasaki take him back? How about a spot next to
>> Max at Alstare Suzuki (MotoGP)?
>> - Hopkins' determined riding was the only bright spot for Team America
>> this weekend, blown up to five this weekend. Hayden started out in his
>> usual position in the dry practice, slipped some in the rain and tried to
>> rebuild his wet weather confidence, hung on to the big lead group early
>> on, but never was higher than 9th. Edwards never had any pace in the dry,
>> although he did have better pace than the guys immediately in front of him
>> in the second half of the race. The Robertses share two bikes, and Junior
>> barely avoided the life-long embarrassment of not qualifying for the race
>> while Kurtis did, and then was horribly off any pace in the race, while
>> Kurtis only lasted three laps before his machine was done.
>
> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Honda's in disaray, Kaw and 'Zuki are probably only
> showing better because of it and the 'Stones. The dwarf thing makes it not
> same same, but not that far from, same as it ever was..
Well, we know the deal with Hayden, and one can't say Pedrosa has done
all that badly so far this year. I still wouldn't quite bet on Stoner
beating him this year. Nakano, he's in a tough spot because, even though
he's a midget and slanty-eyed, both he and his team have some history
sticking thorns in Michelin's side, and tire companies have a long
memory. Melandri, he's got the "Bridgestone advantage" and isn't exactly
a giant, so really should be doing better than he is. Honda gave him the
factory frame this weekend, so it's not like he's having to make do
Colin-style on that team. And then there's the Chucker. The
Honda/Michelin combination isn't what it used to be, and they both will
be focusing on their best chance for redemption, given where they are,
and that's Pedrosa, of course.
>> Ah, on to Road America and those Superbikes...
> And what's the deal with all the rain? Heh, Rumor has it the Limey's had
> somethin' to do with it! And how 'bout SB on Sunday? Thanks Speed, just what
> I wanted to see. Then again,maybe NOT!
What did Speed have to do with anything? The races were shown live, the
weather turned bad and they had to move on. Hey, at least the AMA got
the race in and they're broadcasting the 2nd race tonight; it's not like
in that British-Italian "World" Superbike series, where missing the
telly window literally means packing up and moving on...
Anyway, looks like Ben caught a major
> break given that fairly hard get-off on Sat., but Mat looks to be far from
> done and Miller might(or might not, Zemke again?) just be a tipping point in
> the SB chase. Ben's got 5 points, but looking at the remaining events I
> think it's still advantage Mladin, Road Atlanta and VIR are looking huge in
> the title run,(be there, or be, well, like Vale?) ISTR Mat doing "fairly
> well" at those tracks, but that last race out your way is starting to look
> better too..(Who knows? Maybe I'll hit the lotto!)
Ben's up only two, actually. Anyway, he definitely escaped in pretty
good shape for a weekend that really was looking bad going into
Saturday's race. While I still think Mladin will end up the tougher guy
this year, I would put a bet on the deal being decided by luck more than
putting my money on either rider right now - with how close this is, one
motor puke and a guy's toast. I really hope it comes down to the last
race at Laguna, it will boost the crowd and I haven't been at a deciding
closer since Willow in 2000 (I think my fifth in a row at that point).
And Mid-Ohio it ain't...
So it's interesting to see Spies being seriously mentioned in MotoGP
rumors, with him next to Maxie at Alstare Suzuki the current flavor of
the moment. With Mladin far from done, it could happen - and Ben might
discover that having Mat in the next garage isn't so bad after all...
I'm looking forward to Miller, it should be good, the only track where
the Suzukis looked average last year. They may have learned something,
but I suspect that track allows the other guys to close up, mostly what
it takes is motor. So if anyone else is going to win this year, it might
be here once again.
> Kinda' funny/ironic dept., last race Mat was cryin' about how the top Q gets
> a point and how it's really irrelevant, oddly enough, he didn't have too
> much to say about it this week. Is that guy a prize, or what?
I think he just likes to fuck with the press, it's not like he cares all
that much what people think.
> SStock, are those F'ing Gixxrz that much better than everything else?
> Evidently, either that, or no one else really even tries..
They are definitely the privateer's ride, which may be a contingency
issue as much as anything. But the good ones have more power than anyone
else - I asked Jefferson Burks at the start of the last lap at Sears
where Bostrom would make his try at May, mentioned the run to the
chicane, and he said, "no way, he can't get close enough on that
straight", which was true. Really showed at Elkhart, and it will again
at Miller, I suspect.
> SSport, what happened to my Limey? I thought all those guys were puddle
> ponies. Jeez and I was hopin' he was gonna be different too. C'mon kid, it's
> hammer time, quit letting all those septic bastards push you around!
Yeah, that was ridiculous, the perfect opportunity, the same track and
weather conditions that gave Hodgy his only series win. 49 seconds back
in 7th? At least he beat "It Never Rains In California"'s Rapp. Barely...
> FX, pretty good race, huh? Hayes got it goin' on, hat's off to the Rappster
> too...
The VCR's set for tomorrow's broadcast...
Posted by T3 on June 5, 2007, 1:58 am
> I really don't see it. Michelin can no longer brew on race weekend, so
> both have two weeks to produce the rubber that will be selected amongst on
> race eve, so they are really on even ground there. Michelin may well have
> depended on that to some extent, so are now caught out having to do what
> Bridgestone has been doing for years. The advantage Michelin has now is
> having to do it all for fewer riders, and they have no problem focusing on
> only two or three guys it seems, much like the old days in WSB.
Really? I thought every rider was allowed X amount of tires per event..
> What did Speed have to do with anything? The races were shown live, the
> weather turned bad and they had to move on.
Yeah, to a 250 race, MotoGp, Speed news and Nascar, I'm thinkin' they could
have pre-empted, or shortened something. I had ribs, 'slaw and beer, but was
really disappointed,,(burb!)
Hey, at least the AMA got
> the race in and they're broadcasting the 2nd race tonight; it's not like
> in that British-Italian "World" Superbike series, where missing the telly
> window literally means packing up and moving on...
Yeah, you gotta point there, but damn, I was all set up to watch it while I
chowed down..
> Anyway, looks like Ben caught a major
>> break given that fairly hard get-off on Sat., but Mat looks to be far
>> from done and Miller might(or might not, Zemke again?) just be a tipping
>> point in the SB chase. Ben's got 5 points, but looking at the remaining
>> events I think it's still advantage Mladin, Road Atlanta and VIR are
>> looking huge in the title run,(be there, or be, well, like Vale?) ISTR
>> Mat doing "fairly well" at those tracks, but that last race out your way
>> is starting to look better too..(Who knows? Maybe I'll hit the lotto!)
> Ben's up only two, actually. Anyway, he definitely escaped in pretty good
> shape for a weekend that really was looking bad going into Saturday's
> race. While I still think Mladin will end up the tougher guy this year, I
> would put a bet on the deal being decided by luck more than putting my
> money on either rider right now - with how close this is, one motor puke
> and a guy's toast. I really hope it comes down to the last race at Laguna,
> it will boost the crowd and I haven't been at a deciding closer since
> Willow in 2000 (I think my fifth in a row at that point). And Mid-Ohio it
> ain't...
Both those guys are riding very hard, if it does come down to a break I just
hope it doesn't involve something ugly..
> So it's interesting to see Spies being seriously mentioned in MotoGP
> rumors, with him next to Maxie at Alstare Suzuki the current flavor of the
> moment. With Mladin far from done, it could happen - and Ben might
> discover that having Mat in the next garage isn't so bad after all...
> I'm looking forward to Miller, it should be good, the only track where the
> Suzukis looked average last year. They may have learned something, but I
> suspect that track allows the other guys to close up, mostly what it takes
> is motor. So if anyone else is going to win this year, it might be here
> once again.
You going back out to the salt flats? I hope to make Lexington, though RA
and VIR for certain. I'm tellin' you, this gas bullshit is killing me!
>> Kinda' funny/ironic dept., last race Mat was cryin' about how the top Q
>> gets a point and how it's really irrelevant, oddly enough, he didn't have
>> too much to say about it this week. Is that guy a prize, or what?
> I think he just likes to fuck with the press, it's not like he cares all
> that much what people think.
Oh, I agree, he doesn't give a shit, but it's sorta' wearing a little thin
isn't it?
>> SStock, are those F'ing Gixxrz that much better than everything else?
>> Evidently, either that, or no one else really even tries..
> They are definitely the privateer's ride, which may be a contingency issue
> as much as anything. But the good ones have more power than anyone else -
> I asked Jefferson Burks at the start of the last lap at Sears where
> Bostrom would make his try at May, mentioned the run to the chicane, and
> he said, "no way, he can't get close enough on that straight", which was
> true. Really showed at Elkhart, and it will again at Miller, I suspect.
I've ridden them all at one time, or another and couldn't tell much
difference other than the Gixxr seemed to feel a little lighter turning, but
the contingency buck$ prolly has a lot to do with it..
>> SSport, what happened to my Limey? I thought all those guys were puddle
>> ponies. Jeez and I was hopin' he was gonna be different too. C'mon kid,
>> it's hammer time, quit letting all those septic bastards push you around!
> Yeah, that was ridiculous, the perfect opportunity, the same track and
> weather conditions that gave Hodgy his only series win. 49 seconds back in
> 7th? At least he beat "It Never Rains In California"'s Rapp. Barely...
He got the Honda break at the 200 and hasn't done much since, but he's young
and these are all new tracks, so the jury's still out. Though I do think
he'll prolly end up doing better in FX than he will in SSport..
Posted by Mark N on June 5, 2007, 10:18 am
T3 wrote:
> "Mark N" wrote
>> I really don't see it. Michelin can no longer brew on race weekend, so
>> both have two weeks to produce the rubber that will be selected amongst on
>> race eve, so they are really on even ground there. Michelin may well have
>> depended on that to some extent, so are now caught out having to do what
>> Bridgestone has been doing for years. The advantage Michelin has now is
>> having to do it all for fewer riders, and they have no problem focusing on
>> only two or three guys it seems, much like the old days in WSB.
> Really? I thought every rider was allowed X amount of tires per event..
Yes, they are, but what tires do they get to choose from? Who is
Michelin really working to please? Stoner's comment on the new rule was
that he was never allocated more than 31 tires to go through by Michelin
last year and was never the recipient of any of those "midnight
specials", so what's the difference? That's how it goes at Michelin, I
guess.
> Hey, at least the AMA got
>> the race in and they're broadcasting the 2nd race tonight; it's not like
>> in that British-Italian "World" Superbike series, where missing the telly
>> window literally means packing up and moving on...
>
> Yeah, you gotta point there, but damn, I was all set up to watch it while I
> chowed down..
Life is full of disappointments, big and small. But at least you got to
watch that little shit Mini-Max get his on the last lap in that 250
race, right? That was good...
> You going back out to the salt flats? I hope to make Lexington, though RA
> and VIR for certain. I'm tellin' you, this gas bullshit is killing me!
Yeah, I think so. Doubt I can work a business trip out of it again this
year, so looks like a gas bill for me as well...
>> I think he just likes to fuck with the press, it's not like he cares all
>> that much what people think.
>
> Oh, I agree, he doesn't give a shit, but it's sorta' wearing a little thin
> isn't it?
I like the guy, so I'm probably the wrong guy to ask...
>>> SSport, what happened to my Limey? I thought all those guys were puddle
>>> ponies. Jeez and I was hopin' he was gonna be different too. C'mon kid,
>>> it's hammer time, quit letting all those septic bastards push you around!
>> Yeah, that was ridiculous, the perfect opportunity, the same track and
>> weather conditions that gave Hodgy his only series win. 49 seconds back in
>> 7th? At least he beat "It Never Rains In California"'s Rapp. Barely...
> He got the Honda break at the 200 and hasn't done much since, but he's young
> and these are all new tracks, so the jury's still out. Though I do think
> he'll prolly end up doing better in FX than he will in SSport..
Young? He's 20 years old, for God's sake, that makes him an old geezer
in GP support class terms! Anyway, he's got history racing for Puig in
Spain, which is a black mark as far as I'm concerned. But I shouldn't
hold that against him, I guess. No doubt he's good, and I'd like to see
him stick here, it's too bad Hodgson had to move on - gotta be someplace
these guys can make a living racing.
Anyway, I guess Ellison held up Blighty honor at Elkhart, taking 5th in
the 2nd SB race. Took some factory rider crashes, but still...
> Hayden in 10th for the next one. What I suspect is going on there is the
> result of the situations at Michelin, Honda and Yamaha showing itself at
> last, those three OEM powers circling their battered (more or less) wagons
> around the two guys they really intended to focus on all along, and now we
> see the fruit of that. The caddies, Hayden and Edwards, finished 10th and
> 12th, over a second a lap back, Nakano and Checa are nowhere, and the
> Robertses even less, as is the French team with British (sort of) tires.