Odds 'n' ends...

The core fan base? So why are the great US riders of the past held in
such regard everywhere. Why do the fans still love Schwantz and
Rainey? Jeez but you've got an active imagination.
--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

Posted by on June 12, 2008, 10:33 am

> On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 16:52:16 -0700 (PDT), Mark N

> ..

> The core fan base? =A0So why are the great US riders of the past held in

> such regard everywhere. =A0Why do the fans still love Schwantz and

> Rainey? =A0Jeez but you've got an active imagination.

I made that point for years, and desist to make it again.

I'd understood if someone had tried to make the point some years ago
when the paddock was running low on US talent. Not these days though.

I do agree that the bike and the tires now make up too much of the
equation in MotoGP. When guys like Hayden, Capirossi and Melandri
struggle so much you know something is amiss. But bias against a
nation it ain't. MotoGP is an expensive business. Sponsors like to
win. Manufaturers like to win. Team managers like to win. It's return
on investment. Perhaps too much so.

The new technology seems to make things a tad of a lottery at times.
Some guys run upfront for a few days, then recede into relative
midfield obscurity. Some guys with great riding ability never quite
manage to run up front.

I doubt Hayden would do better in a different team. Maybe his riding
style is simply not the best for these New Age bikes, which while
being faster also require a more robotic and smoother approach to
riding them (Rossi has stated that he's had to switch back to more of
a 250cc style and has let go of many of his previous attempts at
pushing the bike harder 500 style), and thus are less spectacular.

I am not sure where the answers are, but I know that anti-American
bias isn't one of the issues in the paddock, even though the usual 2
fools in this forum continue to project their personal insecurities in
here.

Posted by Mark N on June 12, 2008, 10:40 am

Champ wrote:

> Mark N wrote:

>> Tech3 "the best non-works team"? Would you have said that last

>> year, or the year before?

> They were on Dunlops. All bets were off until they got equivalent

> tyres.

And why were they on Dunlops? Because they lack sufficient sponsorship
to keep the team going without having to suck it up and take their money
in exchange for having to run tires that made them hopeless in terms of
results. Oh, and they also took support from Dorna in exchange for
running Ellison, probably the least-capable rider on the grid but the
"designated Brit" at that time. That team has been sunk since Rossi
drove Altadis away from Yamaha because he liked dressing in yellow more
than blue. If you're really looking for the best non-factory team in
MGP, I think you should be looking at Gresini, who have actually been
winning races over the years.

As for this year, Edwards is employed by Yamaha and Herve probably had
little choice in taking him. Toselend likely had a reward hung over his
head by Dorna, a financial benefit going to whatever team would hire him
away from WSB after MGP had gone a year without their Brit. The step-up
in equipment was almost certainly part of that and that Yamaha had to do
something for Michelin as a tradeoff for Rossi bailing on them. So for
Herve it may have all been a windfall that wasn't really of his doing.

>>> Name a MGP rider who has a ride that should by rights go to a US rider

>>> who doesn't currently have one?

>> Oversimplification.

> Nicely dodging the question.

Not dodging anything. One could easily argue that Spies should have
almost any ride given to any of the 250 promos over the last few years.
One could argue that he didn't previously look at GP with much interest
because he's a smart guy and understands that politics are the lifeblood
of that series, and that does nothing for American riders. One could
argue that Hopkins should have a factory ride at Yamaha or Ducati or
Honda. One could argue that Hayden should be #1 at Repsol and the
developmental focus after winning Honda a championship.

>> The championship is coming down to Rossi vs. Pedrosa, just

>> what Dorna has wanted for at least for or five years. Honda may well

>> climb back to the top by next year and their guys could easily be the

>> likes of Pedrosa, Dovizioso, de Angelis, de Puniet, maybe Bautista,

>> and Yamaha will counter with Rossi and Lorenzo. Meanwhile Hayden,

>> Hopkins, Edwards and Spies may be toiling away on no-hope lease or

>> second-tier factory teams. In other words, just the way Dorna, the big

>> EuroMed sponsors and the core fan base want it.

> The core fan base? So why are the great US riders of the past held in

> such regard everywhere. Why do the fans still love Schwantz and

> Rainey? Jeez but you've got an active imagination.

Maybe because they totally embarrassed every European rider out there in
their era, that it would be the height of absurdity to claim that the
Euros were as good? That they rode the bikes in a manner never seen
before in Europe?

Me, I think there was almost certainly a degree of resentment in Europe
that "their" championship was being dominated by Americans and Aussies
(although that might have largely been an older crowd - kids like you
and Pablo probably didn't have those well-honed biases at that time) and
that's the basis of the "Europeanization" of GP that took place in the
early '90s, when the series became a commercial venture run by Dorna.
Shit, it was openly stated at that time that the series had to find a
way to get European riders up out of 250 and into 500, it's not like it
was some kind of secret conspiracy. What changed over time was that
Euros actually started to believe it, that their guys are simply and
fundamentally better...

Posted by T3 on June 12, 2008, 11:29 am

>>>> Name a MGP rider who has a ride that should by rights go to a US rider

>>>> who doesn't currently have one?

>>> Oversimplification.

>> Nicely dodging the question.

> Not dodging anything. One could easily argue that Spies should have

> almost any ride given to any of the 250 promos over the last few years.

> One could argue that he didn't previously look at GP with much interest

> because he's a smart guy and understands that politics are the

> lifeblood of that series, and that does nothing for American riders.

> One could argue that Hopkins should have a factory ride at Yamaha or

> Ducati or Honda. One could argue that Hayden should be #1 at Repsol and

> the developmental focus after winning Honda a championship.

One could very easily argue that point, but why? Both Hayden and Spies
were/are bonafide champion's, why would anyone question their desire to
ride on a premiere team? Oh, that's right they're 'Merkans...

>>> The championship is coming down to Rossi vs. Pedrosa, just

>>> what Dorna has wanted for at least for or five years. Honda may well

>>> climb back to the top by next year and their guys could easily be the

>>> likes of Pedrosa, Dovizioso, de Angelis, de Puniet, maybe Bautista,

>>> and Yamaha will counter with Rossi and Lorenzo. Meanwhile Hayden,

>>> Hopkins, Edwards and Spies may be toiling away on no-hope lease or

>>> second-tier factory teams. In other words, just the way Dorna, the big

>>> EuroMed sponsors and the core fan base want it.

>> The core fan base? So why are the great US riders of the past held in

>> such regard everywhere. Why do the fans still love Schwantz and

>> Rainey? Jeez but you've got an active imagination.

> Maybe because they totally embarrassed every European rider out there

> in their era, that it would be the height of absurdity to claim that

> the Euros were as good? That they rode the bikes in a manner never seen

> before in Europe?

Pretty much..

> Me, I think there was almost certainly a degree of resentment in Europe

> that "their" championship was being dominated by Americans and Aussies

> (although that might have largely been an older crowd - kids like you

> and Pablo probably didn't have those well-honed biases at that time)

> and that's the basis of the "Europeanization" of GP that took place in

> the early '90s, when the series became a commercial venture run by

> Dorna. Shit, it was openly stated at that time that the series had to

> find a way to get European riders up out of 250 and into 500, it's not

> like it was some kind of secret conspiracy.

> What changed over time was that Euros actually started to believe it,

> that their guys are simply and fundamentally better...

OMG, did you actually say that out loud? Hmm, I thinkin' I might better
go fishin' for the next few days, the fallout from that little truth
nugget might get a deep around here, not to mention, radioactive...

Posted by shaun doherty on June 12, 2008, 3:15 pm

> said:

>>>>> Name a MGP rider who has a ride that should by rights go to a US rider

>>>>> who doesn't currently have one?

>>>

>>>> Oversimplification.

>>>

>>> Nicely dodging the question.

>> Not dodging anything. One could easily argue that Spies should have

>> almost any ride given to any of the 250 promos over the last few years.

>> One could argue that he didn't previously look at GP with much interest

>> because he's a smart guy and understands that politics are the lifeblood

>> of that series, and that does nothing for American riders. One could

>> argue that Hopkins should have a factory ride at Yamaha or Ducati or

>> Honda. One could argue that Hayden should be #1 at Repsol and the

>> developmental focus after winning Honda a championship.

> One could very easily argue that point, but why? Both Hayden and Spies

> were/are bonafide champion's, why would anyone question their desire to

> ride on a premiere team? Oh, that's right they're 'Merkans...

>>>> The championship is coming down to Rossi vs. Pedrosa, just

>>>> what Dorna has wanted for at least for or five years. Honda may well

>>>> climb back to the top by next year and their guys could easily be the

>>>> likes of Pedrosa, Dovizioso, de Angelis, de Puniet, maybe Bautista,

>>>> and Yamaha will counter with Rossi and Lorenzo. Meanwhile Hayden,

>>>> Hopkins, Edwards and Spies may be toiling away on no-hope lease or

>>>> second-tier factory teams. In other words, just the way Dorna, the big

>>>> EuroMed sponsors and the core fan base want it.

>>>

>>> The core fan base? So why are the great US riders of the past held in

>>> such regard everywhere. Why do the fans still love Schwantz and

>>> Rainey? Jeez but you've got an active imagination.

>> Maybe because they totally embarrassed every European rider out there in

>> their era, that it would be the height of absurdity to claim that the

>> Euros were as good? That they rode the bikes in a manner never seen

>> before in Europe?

> Pretty much..

>> Me, I think there was almost certainly a degree of resentment in Europe

>> that "their" championship was being dominated by Americans and Aussies

>> (although that might have largely been an older crowd - kids like you and

>> Pablo probably didn't have those well-honed biases at that time) and

>> that's the basis of the "Europeanization" of GP that took place in the

>> early '90s, when the series became a commercial venture run by Dorna.

>> Shit, it was openly stated at that time that the series had to find a way

>> to get European riders up out of 250 and into 500, it's not like it was

>> some kind of secret conspiracy.

>> What changed over time was that Euros actually started to believe it,

>> that their guys are simply and fundamentally better...

> OMG, did you actually say that out loud? Hmm, I thinkin' I might better go

> fishin' for the next few days, the fallout from that little truth nugget

> might get a deep around here, not to mention, radioactive...

I love reading rec.motorcycles.racing , its always an unbiased focus group
on the realitys of modern culture.
This is nothing new in motorcycle racing , we have seen phases oer the last
30 or 40 years where , Euro was best then the Americans and Aussies , even a
Brit ( Nice two Bazza) then back to the Euros , yes its is about money now ,
but what sport isnt, it will probbaly all go around again

shaun

Page 2 of 9 < 1 2 3 > last >>

Similar Threads	Posted
Odds 'n' ends	September 28, 2008, 12:04 pm
Re: Hayden's reality part II and other odds and ends	November 19, 2007, 4:44 pm
An era ends and another begins (spoiler)	March 10, 2008, 12:32 am
Odds on Estoril	October 9, 2006, 3:51 pm
Odds on for the last race??	October 19, 2006, 6:23 pm
Ladbroke's odds last race	October 24, 2006, 12:53 pm
Ladbroke's odds on Sepang	September 6, 2006, 1:54 pm
Latest betting odds US MotoGP	July 20, 2006, 10:44 pm
Raise the odds on Spies never going to MotoGP	November 3, 2006, 5:11 pm
betfair odds for MotoGP world champion	September 12, 2006, 3:29 pm

XML Sitemap