Posted by Julian Bond on October 24, 2005, 1:14 pm
>Julian Bond wrote:
>>Italians and Spanish get into 125 and 250 faster and a big reason for
>>that is important national championships and Puig's race school.
>I don't think that's really true. For the most part Italians and
>Spaniards get into GP when they are teenagers, and I have a hard time
>believing they are accomplished national-level riders at that age. They
>have to have done something to that point, but I doubt it's anything
>like winning an AMA SB or BSB or WSB championship.
Am I right in thinking that Tony Elias is a graduate of the Puig race
school as well as Dani? Or was he just a 125 rider for Puig?
What does exist in both Italy and Spain and really doesn't exist
elsewhere are junior 125 championships for kids and 250 championships
for those slightly older. Just as in moto-x you can go professional well
before you're allowed to ride on the road or in full races. And these
things are incredibly competitive because so many completely fearless
kids think they can be the next Rossi. Just like junior Moto-X is full
of kids that just know they are the next Carmichael or McGrath. So no,
they don't have the stature of winning a Superbike championship but
they're a great place to spot the next generation of road racers.
>> I long ago gave up any hope of a Brit making the grade in MotoGP. I
>>think it's Ellison's turn for the second d'Antin Ducati but I don't
>>expect much more than some points.
>Do you think Ellison is the best guy? That strikes me as a bit like
>McCoy carrying Aussie hopes in GP a few years ago, not the best guy by
>any means but just the one who was in front of their faces by toughing
>it out and going it alone.
Ellison is quite like McWilliams in that he's never really done the
conventional career route. So it's actually quite hard to tell how good
he really is. But yes, I do rate him and I think he's probably faster
than Shakey, FWIW. Chaz Davies is a real trier and seems to have the
basic speed. Leon Camier deserves a better shot at it. And he's just
convincingly won the BSB SS600 while still only 19. The one that'll be
interesting is Leon Haslam. If he wins BSB next year, I reckon GSE will
take him to WSB the following year. It's almost like watching the recent
careers of Bayliss/Hodgson/Toseland all over again. Which puts him
arriving on a second division MotoGP bike at around 30 before spinning
out again to AMA!
Whatever. This year's contract season for MotoGP has seen way too many
class riders chasing way too few rides. And I really don't know where
the extra rides are going to come from to soak up the potential riders
and fill out the grid. It feels like if you take the capability of the
top 15 or so, there's another 15 riders around the world who could match
that given a bike at least as good as the d'Antin Ducatis or the Suzukis
*and* with good Michelins or Bridgestones. I think Dorna should be
working on (and probably are) Kawasaki/Suzuki/Ducati to run 4 bikes,
Yamaha to run 5 or 6, and people like BMW, Aprilia, perhaps MV to join
in with 2 each. But even then I doubt if Michelin or Bridgestone have
the stomach for supplying them all. And Dunlop/Pirelli don't seem to be
able to compete at this level.
--
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*** Just Say No To DRM ***
Posted by Julian Bond on October 23, 2005, 2:21 pm
>but the tide is definitely turning in MotoGP, and the old
>(JIS-dominated) 500 class is finally fading out of the picture, at
>least as the dominant group.
To be replaced by the new IS-dominated MotoGP class with one and a half
Americans in there. New faces, same countries.
--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
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*** Just Say No To DRM ***
Posted by Mark N on October 23, 2005, 3:18 pm
Julian Bond wrote:
> Mark N
>> but the tide is definitely turning in MotoGP, and the old
>> (JIS-dominated) 500 class is finally fading out of the picture, at
>> least as the dominant group.
> To be replaced by the new IS-dominated MotoGP class with one and a half
> Americans in there. New faces, same countries.
So you insist on making my cup half-empty, eh, Julian? Not sure what the
math is on your American count, but I assume it's making a claim for the
Crown on half of Hopper and discounting Colin, or is it that claim on
Hopper, the Aussie claim on half of Edwards, and Lord knows what about
half of Nicky?
In any case, de Puntang is a bit of a drag, but Pedrosa deserves a shot,
maybe not such an exalted one but certainly a shot. Elias is showing
very well now, which is good (I actually like him, but then I also like
Checa), and Xaus is getting tossed, it seems (don't like Rube, don't
like Gibernau, never liked Criville). I am also assuming the possibility
of Vermuelen and Stoner (more half-claims, Julian?) when it looked like
there might not be a single Aussie in the series, so definitely good
news there. Now all we need is a Brit (Dorna will probably make room
there, maybe at D'Antin), unless one adds up all those tiny bits you
make claim to...
Posted by matty on October 23, 2005, 4:50 pm
> Now all we need is a Brit (Dorna will probably make room
> there, maybe at D'Antin), unless one adds up all those tiny bits you make
> claim to...
Yea that'd be right, give who ever it is a crappy Ducati that has no chance
of competing with anything.
It's about time someone gave Chaz Davies a decent ride in the 250 class, all
those 'so called' stars on their factory bikes, I'm sure he would piss past
a lot of them if given a chance.
matty
Posted by brian on October 23, 2005, 11:14 pm
> Julian Bond wrote:
>> To be replaced by the new IS-dominated MotoGP class with one and a
>> half Americans in there. New faces, same countries.
>
> So you insist on making my cup half-empty, eh, Julian? Not sure what
> the math is on your American count, but I assume it's making a claim
> for the Crown on half of Hopper and discounting Colin, or is it that
> claim on Hopper, the Aussie claim on half of Edwards, and Lord knows
> what about half of Nicky?
I think he meant Nicky (1) and Hopper (0.5 American/0.5 Brit)
> In any case, de Puntang is a bit of a drag, but Pedrosa deserves a
> shot, maybe not such an exalted one but certainly a shot.
People said the same thing about hayden when he got the HRC ride.
Brian
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>>Italians and Spanish get into 125 and 250 faster and a big reason for
>>that is important national championships and Puig's race school.
>I don't think that's really true. For the most part Italians and
>Spaniards get into GP when they are teenagers, and I have a hard time
>believing they are accomplished national-level riders at that age. They
>have to have done something to that point, but I doubt it's anything
>like winning an AMA SB or BSB or WSB championship.