The Roger the Dodger Guide to What is a NASBike

 After reading the CN interview with Roger Edmondson (more than once) , I
thought I'd help folks wade through all the words and get to the essence
of exactly how Rog pictures the bikes that he'll feature going forward.

Q: Will the premier class be 1000s or 600s?

Rog: It could be 600s... It's too early for me to lay out a vision for
what Superbike racing should be, but we certainly recognize the fact
that the industry has a vision for it. Many years ago when they had a
choice to go from 750s  they didn't go to 600s - they went 1000s... I do
think the current Superbike series is pretty dysfunctional and probably
the only one who would prefer to see the status quo is Suzuki. So I want
to talk to all of them and see what they want. There is a variety of
ways that could go, but Superbikes will be the premier class. It could
be 1000s, it could be a new program or they could be companion pieces.

My inclination, without talking to anybody, would be to take a hard look
at the FIM's World Superbike rules... In the case of factory motorcycle
racing, these factories are dealing with one set of rules for the rest
of the world and the America sanctioning body thinks they are smarter
than everybody else and has to put their own stamp on it. I think that's
arrogant in a way. It's wasteful to have to build two versions of the
Superbike... There may be legitimate reasons why we should have our own
rules package. Is that something we should write or should we sit down
the four manufacturers and say, "Okay, you guys want nuclear weapons or
microwave ovens?" There are a lot of ways this could go, but we are
going to be inclusive. We're not going to be isolationists and put
people out. But, again, I don't mean to sound arrogant, but the
decisions that we take in here, we will go forward. It has to be that way.

I met with Ray Blank [of Honda] this morning... He made it clear to me
today that the OEMs have supported the AMA, in part, because they had
the ability to control things. And I made it clear that the train has
left the station and it was a new era here.

Q: The World Superbikes are much more liberal and you have faster
motorcycles. Yet you guys are stressing safety?

Rog: Well, they start that way, but that's the equipment that starts
that way. There's the ability to to put restrictors on them, or put
horsepower limits on them, or start taking away things, but on the
equipment that is available and built...

I'll go back to Fred Merkel when he came back to the United States. You
put him on a Superbike and he was up there with two or three guys and
everybody else was back here. But you put him on a 750 Supersport
machine and he was up there with 10 or 12 guys because that many people
further dowen the pyramid could ride that equipment to a competitive
level. This sounds like I'm trying to dumb it down to where we don't
need the same skill level, but you heard me say tonight that we have to
live within our means and let's remember, we're still just a national
championship. I think it's it's not a bad plan to have a separation
between those who are truly the world's best, and those who are
America's best. Nothing wrong with the two programs.

See, you've got to sell hope, but it's got to be realized. And that hope
is just that - you can win if you got the right stuff. And I think one
of the keys there, is a good rules package, but one that requires that
every piece on the motorcycle be available to every competitor. I go
back to the old era, we had $7000 Suzuki 750s with $13,000 radiators on
them, if you can afford a $13,000 radiator, if they'll sell it to you.
It's not available if you can't afford it.

As I said, school's out. New day. How's that working for everybody but
Suzuki now? And I'm not putting down Suzuki, they've done the job.
They've earned their position and they're to be respected for that. But
it's not my job to sell Suzukis. It's my job to give every manufacturer
the opportunity to win. If they don't win, that's not my fault. It's not
our fault as a sanctioning body. But they should have an opportunity.
Right now, they don't have one. The other guys have got it figured out,
they're doing things to keep that position, and we've got to stop it.
And the best way to stop it is readily available equipment.


Whew. So we may have 1000s and we may have 600s, but we'll start with
WSB factory machines and then slow them down from there, but all of that
available to everyone, and at a very reasonable cost. They'll either let
the four Japanese manufacturers decide the rules, or they'll give them a
listen and then decide for themselves. At least we know they'll call
them Superbikes.

Kinda leaves me wondering if Rog knows that not all the factories even
build bikes for WSB these days, or that other championships (like BSB)
have rules that differ from WSB, or that WSB favored Ducati in their
rules for years and that turned it into a twins series, or that a Ducati
street base machine will set one back $40,000 before paying even a dime
of sales tax and never mind actually modifying it, or that factories
don't sell there stuff to just anyone let alone at an affordable price,
or that the current rules are the same for all the Japanese factories in
the AMA and don't somehow favor Suzuki, etc. And he could bone up on
Merkel as well - Fred finished 8th in 750SS that year for Kawasaki and
won only one race, but the guys who finished ahead of him were almost
all on Suzukis and they won every race but the two won by Kawasaki. In
SB that year Merkel finished tied for 10th, didn't win a race and I
think was only on the box once, and Ducati, Yamaha and Kawasaki
(Russell) won all the races, as Suzuki and Honda had relative dogs for
SBs that year. And does he remember the Brainerd race that year, perhaps
the best SB race ever, led by something like eight different riders on
all six machines contesting that championship? Oh, well, memories are
convenient things.

But, hey, at least we can feel secure in the knowledge that America's
premier racing series is now in the hands of people with such a deep
understanding of motorcycle racing and a clear vision of how to pull it
out of its current doldrums and thrust it toward a brilliant future...

 Mark N wrote:

I'mmm detecting a weeeee bit of cynicism here... :-)

Basically, it's all up in the air, and they're going to turn it topsy
turvey on its head next year.

To me this is the money quote, and I think pegs his entire attitude.

 > This sounds like I'm trying to dumb it down to where we don't
 > need the same skill level, but you heard me say tonight that
 > we have to live within our means and let's remember, we're
 > still just a national championship.

"Just a national championship". (This may sound arrogant, it's not
intended too, but email can do horrible things to intent.)

If you look at WSB, and consider the EU a single "nation", WSB is
effectively a "national" championship as well (yes, they have 4 trips
out to Qatar, Australia, US, and Indonesia this year).

Appreciate that it may be "just a national champhionship", it's also the
"national championship" of the worlds largest economy, with the 3rd
largest population.

We have a lot of "national championships" and road shows that criss
cross the country.

We know how good the riders in the AMA are when we used to wildcard in
WSB, and they perform very well.

I wonder if the NASCAR drivers feel like "they're just in a national
championship". Untalented hacks that can't run with the "big boys" at
the "top level".

The big difference between AMA and WSB is simply the crowds they draw,
and that's a demographic issue directly related to the popularity of
motor sport in Europe vs the US.

Good riders go where they can be a) paid, and b) challenged. For
whatever reason, WSB is no longer a stepping stone for American riders.
It's not even a destination. There's never recently been mention of
"when is XYZ going to move up to WSB", it's all GP now, and it has very
limited slots as well as other issues. That seems to have been a direct
reaction to the spec tire rule. Ben Bostrom went over once, but he
certainly wasn't serious, as his team wasn't particularly serious.

Perhaps someone can tell me why Neil Hodgson is over here (again) this
year, and not in WSB (or BSB for that matter). I can't believe he
couldn't find a slot somewhere, I'm guessing it's more a money issue.

The paddock this year is quite cosmopolitan as well, we have our token
Australians, Neil, a Japanese rider, a Mexican rider, resident Canadians
of course, and Chaz Davies (boy, is he serious or what?). No doubt there
are others. Not the diversity of WSB, but if you look at it from a
"state" level, then sure, they're all over the map. California, Texas,
Mississippi, New York, Kentucky, etc. etc.

There are no barriers to entry in the AMA, we don't have "no French
allowed" rules. I don't think any of the series do.

Riders go where they're paid. If Rog wants to make the AMA "second
fiddle" to WSB, then adopt WSB rules, adopt the Pirelli spec tires, and
put a salary cap on the riders. That will give the "good riders" a
destination up to the "big series" so they don't have to wallow in the
mud of a "mere" "national series" like the insignificant AMA.

Then we yanks can go to the track and watch Jethro, Huck, and Blue
Bonnet (oh, wait, we have NASCAR for that).

It's a shame that NASBike is destined to become "spectacle" rather than
racing. The dark side is how much this can affect the clubs as well,
since they need to prepare their riders for the AMA, so a lot the new
AMA rules will bubble down to the club series as well.

Hmm, maybe I have a wee bit of cynicism too.

 On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:58:54 -0700, Will Hartung


Why on earth would you consider that?


Well, sure.  We could consider the AMA a 'western hemisphere
championship' and wonder why it never visits Mexico, South America or
Canada.  But that would be silly.


While this is true, the audience is what counts, and it doesn't appear
to be there for bike racing.  Why does basketball get close to zero
coverage in europe?  Because no one cares, is why.  But people do care
about bike racing (massively in some places - in Spain it's the second
biggest sport after football - another sport not much covered in the
USA).  The races go to two places :
1.  where the interest is
2.  where the tobacco advertising rules are lax, for TV coverage


Who cares?  No one outside the USA watches NASCAR


--
Champ
neal at champ dot org dot uk

 
Hmmm. I think the EU just outstripped the USA as "World's Largest
Economy."


Funny, that's not how I remember it. Ben hit a peak where he was pretty
good. 5 wins on the trot?


Actually I don't think he could get a slot. The last two years the top
rides on the good factory bikes were all taken.


What puzzles me about all this is an apparent inability to look at what
works well elsewhere. But then this year it's all up in the air again.
Each year we seem to see a press release about how the factories and
reps from all the major SB championships are sitting down and trying to
rationalise and standardise the rules. Everyone thinks this would be a
good thing with benefits to all, and then every year, they all go their
own way.

I guess I'll get accused of bias again, but I think BSB might just have
got the rules right this year. We should be able to tell after half the
season.
- FIM points system
- WSB chassis
- Stock crank, rods, pistons
- WSS600 style top end, cams with stock lift but open duration.
- Stock valve sizes
- Stock intake
- Unlimited head work
- Free gearbox
- 1000cc-4, 1200cc-2
- Spec tyre
- 2 SB races, 1 SS600 race and then usually three or four support races
made up of Superstock1000, 125GP, R1 Cup, Superdukes and whatever.
Practice on Friday and Saturday, all races on Sunday.

What will confuse all this is the quality of the ECU and traction
control. But apart from that it means that the really expensive,
unobtainium bits are outlawed and what's left is available on the open
market.

--
Julian Bond  E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com  M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
Webmaster:          http://www.ecademy.com/       T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
Personal WebLog:    http://www.voidstar.com/      skype:julian.bond?chat
                            Glides On Smooth

 

And with real money no less..


Ayup, he got really hot(5 in a row, or something?) and then
unfortunately for him, really cold, in fact, frozen..


Unlike last year he didn't want to not have a chair when the music
stopped and of course, the money wasn't bad either..


I wouldn't be surprised if we end up fairly close with regards to your
SB specs, at least I heard there are "those" lobbying in that
direction, though I do believe our SSport will be pretty much a box
stock type deal and I also wouldn't be surprised if our weekends were
different too, perhaps with the emphasis on "the" Sunday SB race,
though I'd imagine there's a lot of discussion still to be had on that
particular issue..


I can see that becoming a problem and wonder just exactly how they plan
to deal with it, as you know, it's easy to be sneaky with 'tronics..