Posted by Julian Bond on April 22, 2007, 4:36 am
There's a lot of weird stuff going on in MotoGP this year from a
technical point of view. And it's not exactly clear what's going on.
Even the insider's (eg Julian Ryder) are speculating and know they're
doing it. A few data points.
- Heavier taller riders on Hondas (Hayden, Melandri, Checa) are
complaining about front end feel. Lighter riders (Pedrosa, Elias) are
complaining about rear grip. Nakano is the exception that can't find it
at all. A light small rider who doesn't trust the front.
- Nakano tried to solve his front end problems on the basis that there
was too much weight on the front. They moved the engine back a fraction
and then had no grip on the front.
- The Honda is said to be relatively gutless. It's all revs and no
torque like a 2006 R6. People are saying it needs a 250cc style. Maybe
what it actually needs is a 125 style. Rewarding momentum and perfect
gearing.
- Pedrosa first and Hayden next now have a new frame design with the top
shock mount on the frame rather than a fully floating design.
- Hayden has had a new frame, gone back 12 months with forks, had new
geometry on the front. The only time he seems to be able to break
through the problem is with a qualifier on the front.
- Yamaha and Kawasaki have found more speed and a big part of that is
better engine management that gives better fuel consumption. They were
both very conservative on fuel in the first two races to avoid running
out.
- Honda are supposed to aim for small frontal area rather than
streamlining for speed and low side area rather than streamlining for
manoeuvrability. Ducati's aim seems to be completely the reverse. And
yet Ducati clearly has a top speed advantage and Stoner is as fast as
anyone through T4 at Turkey and doesn't seem to have any nimbleness
problems.
My take on all this is that the Honda is knife edge sensitive to weight
distribution. Sitting the rider fractionally forward or back or shifting
the engine fractionally forward or back radically alters the feel of the
bike. I think their approach to fairing design is just plain wrong. So
the solution for Hayden should be:-
- Extended clip-ons that are well in front of the fork tubes. A reduced
size tank cover all aimed at getting him forwards over the front. Push
the fairing and screen forwards to provide space.
- Throw the fairing away and copy Ducati.
- Focus engine development on torque below the power band.
IMHO! ;)
--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
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*** Just Say No To DRM ***
Posted by Champ on April 22, 2007, 6:57 am
On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 08:36:47 GMT, Julian Bond
<snip>
>- Hayden has had a new frame, gone back 12 months with forks, had new
>geometry on the front. The only time he seems to be able to break
>through the problem is with a qualifier on the front.
<snip>
All good points, but I was just going to add that Mamola suggested
that getting a bike to work on sticky rubber is easy. It's getting it
to work on race rubber that is the trick.
--
Champ
Posted by Julian Bond on April 23, 2007, 3:09 am
>On Sun, 22 Apr 2007 08:36:47 GMT, Julian Bond
><snip>
>>- Hayden has had a new frame, gone back 12 months with forks, had new
>>geometry on the front. The only time he seems to be able to break
>>through the problem is with a qualifier on the front.
><snip>
>All good points, but I was just going to add that Mamola suggested
>that getting a bike to work on sticky rubber is easy. It's getting it
>to work on race rubber that is the trick.
And then at least some of that gets turned upside down in the race. It
was working for Elias. It was mostly working for Melandri. It was mostly
working for Hayden. It was probably working for Pedrosa[1] but we didn't
get to see it. And Hayden was first Michelin runner in a sea of
Bridgestone runners. Checa, Nakano, (and Roberts) were nowhere but then
they were also on Michelins.
So how much of that race was decided by Bridgestone getting it perfect
and Michelin screwing up and how much by the new tyre rules confusing
everybody.
I have to say I don't like the tyre rules or the fuel limitation. I
think it's artificial and it's skewing the results. but then the old
tyre rules also skewed the results by artificially holding down the
secondary teams.
[1]On qualifying split times there was a potential 0.5s on the pole.
Dani was fastest in the first three splits but lost it all to Rossi in
the 4th when he got blocked.
--
Julian Bond E&MSN: julian_bond at voidstar.com M: +44 (0)77 5907 2173
Webmaster: http://www.ecademy.com/ T: +44 (0)192 0412 433
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*** Just Say No To DRM ***
Posted by Mark N on April 22, 2007, 8:08 am
Julian Bond wrote:
> There's a lot of weird stuff going on in MotoGP this year from a
> technical point of view. And it's not exactly clear what's going on.
> Even the insider's (eg Julian Ryder) are speculating and know they're
> doing it. A few data points.
<snip - a lot of the talk about the 212 and nothing else, the usual
Julian "everyone's got problems with it" stuff>
> My take on all this is that the Honda is knife edge sensitive to weight
> distribution. Sitting the rider fractionally forward or back or shifting
> the engine fractionally forward or back radically alters the feel of the
> bike. I think their approach to fairing design is just plain wrong. So
> the solution for Hayden should be:-
> - Extended clip-ons that are well in front of the fork tubes. A reduced
> size tank cover all aimed at getting him forwards over the front. Push
> the fairing and screen forwards to provide space.
...and totally overload the front end and create grip problems at the
rear...
> - Throw the fairing away and copy Ducati.
...and overheat the motor, since you also speculate that compacting the
motor created the need to eliminate the side panels...
> - Focus engine development on torque below the power band.
...and Honda has said, why throw more power at a bike that can't handle
what it has now?
No, what the Honda guys ought to do is this:
- They should all climb into a time machine
- Hayden should sign with Ducati this time, as he should have last fall
- Nakano should stay with the Bridgestone tires he knows
- Gresini should have stayed with the Michelins his guys are used to
- Stoner would have resigned with Cecchinello and Honda would have had
all the mini ex-250 guys they seek
- Checa would be odd man out
- We'd know if there's really anything wrong with the Honda when
applied to the "right" riders without all this other stuff potentially
clouding the picture
- Hayden would be on pole in Turkey, one of his favorite tracks, and
fighting Rossi for the world championship lead...
>geometry on the front. The only time he seems to be able to break
>through the problem is with a qualifier on the front.