Posted by ©yamaha_majesty on February 26, 2007, 3:44 am
To: maxi-scooters@yahoogroups.com
On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 13:17:40 -0000 (GMT), you wrote:
|>
|>"Scootrunner" said:-
|>
|>>>causing the battery to be permanently
|>>> low-charged. And that kills 'em.
|>>
|>> Except that gel batteries (like the TMax's) tolerate being deep-cycled
|>> ('flattened') but not over-charged.....
|>>
|>
|>As an Old Fogey, with just on 50 yrs of playing with motorised vehicles, I
|>was initially disbelieving at the concept of vehicle batteries fitted in
|>situ on their sides - I did assume that any such battery would have to be
|>gel filled.
|>
|>However as, inter alia, "Robert La Casse" said on this list, the GT9B-4
|>battery as fitted to the Yamaha Majesty 400 and the Tmax is clearly shown
|>on the casing to be 'Valve Regulated Lead-Acid Non-Spillable'. The initial
|>fitment battery on my 2001 Tmax is labelled GS and was made by the Japan
|>Storage Battery Co.
|>
|>The replacement I fitted after nearly 4 yrs is also a Lead-Acid sealed unit.
|>
|>So, certainly, not all (if any) original fitment batteries to Yam 400 &
|>Tmax are gel filled.
|>
|>I believe that the Suzuki Burgman 400 (and other scooters?) use this same
|>battery - my main complaint is that at a rated 8 amp. hour it is barely
|>adequate for the job, and it is my belief that this is at least part of
|>the reason that they seem to fail sooner than one would reasonably expect.
|>
|>The Honda CH250 (Spacy & Elite) had a 12v 12 amp. hr. battery, and the
|>CN250 (Helix etc.) a 12v 10 amp. hr. as original fitment, and in a
|>regularly used bike these would last for 8 to 10 years before needing
|>replacement.
|>
|>Robin (in Bristol, UK)
|>
Although some may differ in the terminology here and there, the term
VRLA/MF maybe used in not only the referred Wet Cell as in the GT9B-4,
(Yuasa)YT9B-4, KT9B-4 but has a relevance to AGM and Cell Batteries as
well...and too confuse things, some VRLA are partially gelled like the
GT9B-4, although the Battery Manual does say Sealed WET charged.
The VRLA **valve* only refers to the one way outgassing of the
battery per cell, as in no air get's in but an overcharge will dry it out.
Your right about the 8amps especially in the cold overnight street
parking environment, where flashy lights *trickling* is quite a luxury.
My last battery slowed down to a low charge after 2 years of
inevitable abuses, and when I got a new one for a mere $250, they said it
should last about 2-->3 years...neat huh!
The VRLA GT9B-4 in the manual lists so many dont's, that using it is
almost a no-no.....and when charging, it insists on a consistent charge, not
a regular Optima/Car trickle charger that conditions and alternately floats,
but a *consistent* charge...it does say no regular automatic
chargers...that's a lot of constrictive parameters, but I try to play by
those rules.
Bob
--
Triad Productions-Fantalla®~EZine~ParaNovel
National Association of Assault Research
WWW mirror>> http://boblacasse.150m.com
Posted by Dennis Lee Bieber on February 26, 2007, 1:16 pm
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 00:44:49 -0800, ©yamaha_majesty@mbk.cid declaimed
the following in alt.scooter:
> Your right about the 8amps especially in the cold overnight street
> parking environment, where flashy lights *trickling* is quite a luxury.
If I read the label on my Scarabeo 500 battery, it has a 14AH
unit... And I spent most of last fall worried that I had a chipped tooth
on the flywheel (the starter "sounded" normal, but wasn't turning over
the engine -- just a "tick, tick, tick" as of a gear tooth tapping a
broken tooth remains). Two or three attempts at starting, sometimes
including jouncing the bike (dropping off the center stand) would result
it the starter catching the flywheel and the machine would start.
Came back from Christmas and decided to run an experiment... Pulled
the battery and spent a few weekends on a charger (I'd have left it on
all week, but I'd be at work and the charger/battery were in my
kitchen). Put it back in, and also hooked up the Jeep via jumper cables.
Hit the start button and never heard the starter -- engine was running.
So far, I've gone two weeks without a "tick, tick, tick"... But on a
cold evening leaving work (46degF according to instruments) the cranking
took longer than usual, and the gauge read 9.8v after the engine
started. 55degF the next morning (near noon, I work late) it started and
showed ~12v.
Biggest concern now is that my stop&go commute spends too much time
not charging (system doesn't put out enough voltage to charge until
2000+ RPM). I've started taking the freeway route just to avoid idling.
For info -- I've only had the bike since last summer; battery
problems started with the cold (<55deg) weather in October.
--
Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber KD6MOG
wlfraed@ix.netcom.com wulfraed@bestiaria.com
HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
(Bestiaria Support Staff: web-asst@bestiaria.com)
HTTP://www.bestiaria.com/
Posted by ©rkba on February 27, 2007, 1:51 am
wrote:
|>So far, I've gone two weeks without a "tick, tick, tick"... But on a
|>cold evening leaving work (46degF according to instruments) the cranking
|>took longer than usual, and the gauge read 9.8v after the engine
|>started. 55degF the next morning (near noon, I work late) it started and
|>showed ~12v.
So the magneto does recharge, but usually not enough...it should read
some 12.8v as a full charge...12.4v means recharge, and 12v means a new battery.
If your going down to 9.8v overnight, the battery is toast and should be
replaced, using the old battery as a Computer UPS backup battery were it will
stay charged all the time..
|> Biggest concern now is that my stop&go commute spends too much time
|>not charging (system doesn't put out enough voltage to charge until
|>2000+ RPM). I've started taking the freeway route just to avoid idling.
That "tick, tick, tick" or more like a "ratchet" sound, is when the
battery is too low and usually won't start at that point.....the sound itself is
some starter relay knock on newer bikes.
The single press of the starter switch "ratchet" sound from the starter
relay is much different from the starter relay "one click" in older bikes,
which was difficult to notice at each press of the starter switch.
--
Triad Productions-Fantalla©~EZine~ParaNovel
National Astrophysical Assault Research
http://lacasse.naar.be http://ammo.at/lacasse
Posted by Dennis Lee Bieber on February 27, 2007, 3:27 am
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 22:51:16 -0800, ©rkba@ca.rkba.cid declaimed the
following in alt.scooter:
> wrote:
>
> So the magneto does recharge, but usually not enough...it should read
> some 12.8v as a full charge...12.4v means recharge, and 12v means a new
battery.
>
> If your going down to 9.8v overnight, the battery is toast and should be
> replaced, using the old battery as a Computer UPS backup battery were it will
> stay charged all the time..
Well, at cruise speeds, the dash voltmeter will vary between 13.8
and 14.0 (+/- 0.1 at times). Which is normal duty recharge for a wet
lead-acid battery (I believe some stuff I've read indicates that 13-13.6
is a charge rate that avoids "boiling", but may cause sulfation --
13.8-14.2 avoids sulfation, but may cause fluid loss -- and I did have
to add a thumb width of fluid to those cells [width from just above
"min" to just below "max" level]).
In the situation stated above, the 9.8v occurred after sitting 9
hours at work; the 12v was after sitting overnight 14 hours. But with a
10degF rise in relative temps when I got to it...
>
> The single press of the starter switch "ratchet" sound from the starter
> relay is much different from the starter relay "one click" in older bikes,
> which was difficult to notice at each press of the starter switch.
I'm more accustomed to automotive low-voltage conditions (having
left dome lights on all weekend). Either the starter engages and one
gets the "rorrrr - rooorrrrr - rorrrrrrrrrrrrrr" as it just slows down
to a stop, or a distinctive solenoid click if the power is insufficient
to energize the starter. The bike didn't sound/feel like the latter
condition (and, as stated, after a few tries it would engage and start
-- which I've never seen an automobile do when dead)
--
Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber KD6MOG
wlfraed@ix.netcom.com wulfraed@bestiaria.com
HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
(Bestiaria Support Staff: web-asst@bestiaria.com)
HTTP://www.bestiaria.com/
Posted by Jones on February 27, 2007, 1:57 pm
Dennis Lee Bieber wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 22:51:16 -0800, ©rkba@ca.rkba.cid declaimed the
> following in alt.scooter:
>
>> wrote:
>>
>> So the magneto does recharge, but usually not enough...it should read
>> some 12.8v as a full charge...12.4v means recharge, and 12v means a new
battery.
>>
What do you think of the idea of putting one of those solar panel
chargers on whilst the bike is standing after commute in the a.m.??
--
Biking for 37 years.
GOM
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> parking environment, where flashy lights *trickling* is quite a luxury.